If you are an atheist...

[Pruni]

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I'm not comvinced by the argument of spirit without god. Wihtout a spirit we would be no more than complex biological robots.

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Scientology is a religion, just a relatively new (somewhat cultish and weird) one. Whatever its originator was up to (or thought he was up to? Presumably his hand was guided by the appropriate "good" scientologist higher beings), people do genuinely believe in it.

hmm, that is why I can never quite get round the idea of athiesm. the idea that life can be explained jsut down to biological processes and there is nothing more. Nope, don't buy it.

apparently he wanted to clear people of unhappiness. Sceptics dismiss it as a global money making racket.

Tell me something - those who believe in evolution... if apes evolved into man.... why are there still apes???????????????????????????

kelly - you posted "I think worshipping cats is actually no different to praying in church at the end of the day" - SNAP! Neither do I. Which is why I have no religion.

As for why are we moved by 'religious' art/music if we are not religious. It's because 'religious' art (much of it made by people with little or no belief in an era when it was extremely dangerous to say so)taps our human feelings because that's what they are. Can anyone here honestly say they love God more than they love their children? Or that they are more moved in Church than they were by the births/the being-aliveness of their children. Does anyone feel more ecstasy or pain than when they fall deeply in love with another human being? All 'religious' feelings are only human feelings.

Tell me something - those who believe in evolution... if apes evolved into man.... why are there still apes???????????????????????????

I find is SO bizarre that people find cat-gods more convincing than the amazing wonder and power of nature and life itself.
Supernatural beings? Nah. Don't buy it.

Um. Nickinha. It's not worth getting too far into this, but apes did not evolve into humans.

Apes and humans share a common ancestor. Much as you and I share a common ancestor - we both descended from someone a long time ago. That person is now dead, but you and I are alive.

Similarly, apes and I share a common ancestor from much longer ago. That common ancestor was probably more apey than human, but it wasn't the same as apes or humans. That common ancestor is now dead, but apes and I are alive.

Oh, and, not to be pedantic, but tailless monkeys (chimps, bonobos, whatever) have more in common with humans than apes do, I think. My common ancestor with monkeys was alive more recently than my common ancestor with apes (which was alive more recently than my common ancestor with cats, which was alive more recently than my common ancestor with turtles, etc etc).

"I'm no kin to the monkey la la la and the monkey's no kin to me... dee dee dee..."

I remember watching a TV programme where a bunch of schoolkids in the American deeeeeeep South sang it, and for some reason, it's always hung around in my head, to be dragged out on occasions such as this.

Nickinha, I dont' think you have studied evolution. Modern apes and modern humans are totally different species. Both have evolved greatly over time. We do appear to have common ancestors but this was a very long time ago. \link{http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/this} is an interesting site talking about the fossil evidence of the stages of early man.
If evolution didn't exist, why are there so many animals alive now who look completely different to those alive a few million years ago?

but can you put the 'amazing wonder and power of nature and life itself' down to pure biological/physical processes and nothing more?

I don't want to go to deep into my beliefs but to me that is all part of God.

Hm, to me, the amazing biological processes and balance of nature are even more amazing, as they evolved and grew thanks to physics and genetics.

Of course, this isn't the sort of subject where people convince each other, ever, is it?

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Pruni, I could totally be wrong. I haven't read much evolution lately, and I don't remember whether my claddist books got into that sort of detail. I will ask our neighbourhood biologist.

Hmm, a bit of websearching seems to show that "tailless monkey" = "apes". I guess I see "apes" and think "gorillas".

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Kind of a bit on a tangent but I don't believe in god but do believe in spirits and an after life, FIL (deeply Catholic) tells me I can't believe in an afterlife or I would believe in God, does anyone else have these views and if so how can I convince FIL that I don't need to believe in God to believe in spirits!

I think I believe in evolution though so that's how I explain my non-god beliefs.

Why would you need more than the amazing beauty and power of life itself? That's another problem with religion for me. It seems so needy.

Thanx for that NotQuiteCockney, however I do prefer NOT to believe that one of my ancestors got frisky with something other than their own kind........ to each his own though

I do understand though that some people do need something to believe in to get through certain traumas in life etc, I probably only believe in an afterlife because I need to know that there is more to my existance than just this life and it helps to know that loved ones may be watching over me but I totally accept why some people don't believe in any of this, I think it is a comfort thing more than anything else.

Um. Nickinha? Evolution doesn't require people breeding with (wildly) different creatures. No more different than humans are from each other.

It just needs variation and selection. So, creatures naturally vary in their genetic qualities. And different qualities are useful in different circumstances, and affect which creatures manage to breed, and how much.