If you are an atheist...

[Pruni]

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Also to damn people for all eternity for not believing and then making it impossible for many, many people to believe also seems, um, a tad unreasonable.

last thing - i don't think it is that scientific to say 'god doesn't exist because there is no evidence to prove it' . As i said before, people thought the earth was flat as there was no evidence to prove otherwise. Often in our social evolution, an idea has started in our imagination before it becomes science. In fact most scientific discoveries have to start as imagined ideas before they can go out and be proven. [Da Vinci painted helicopters]. There is so much we don't know about our universe. There may be parallel universes out there. Do we say 'Nope, they don't exist because there is no evidence' or do we say 'Possibly there are.' ? I like to keep an open mind at least. That why i think athiesm is also an act of faith, you are closing doors on possiblities, dare i say it, irrationally!

What is wrong with pleasure and leading a good,happy life, exactly?

aloha i'm addicted to replying to your posts! bum! A] no one;s damned for not believing. B] we have free will, so we can think what we like.

and nothing is wrong with leading a good and happy life! Absolutely nothing! Who has said there is?

Actually, it's a total myth that people ever thought the world was flat.

Yes, and Zeus and Wodin and Aphrodite could exist, eh? But you have no trouble with not believing in them? Not to mention cat gods and elephant gods and the River Styx? Or are you keeping an open mind on all of those too?

roosmum, actually i do have a sense of panic at times, and used to more, especially as a teenager when i thought about "who am i - what does it all mean - where did we come from?" realising that i don't really know IS scary and feels like i am falling through space. however, that is also, to me, part of life. i am able to admit the origins of the universe are obscure and there are some questions i can't answer, and with i aloha i also think we should enjoy the ride (and make it enjoyable for others). so much of religion seems to be about making yourself and others miserable with restrictions and pointless rules, for the sake of "pie in the sky when you die". well, that might not be true, and even if it is, i'd rather live my life as a good, kind person than as someone who gets brownie points by avoiding sex before marriage, honouring my parents, or worst of all the completely morally vacuous tenet of believing in Jesus itself as a key to heaven. it is more important to be nice, imo.

So what is 'salvation'? Salvation from what?

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Yes! Makes sense though, doesn't it?

aloha, some peole did, the ancient egyptians for example.

It's quite hard to find a Christian who believes in heaven or hell these days.

think you need a trip to the midwest aloha!

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but i once heard a methodist on radio 4 saying she didn't believe in hell because we are all god's children and she could never send her kids to hell £howver naughty they'd been".

that is the kind of religious person i do have respect for

the ancient egyptians though it was a big disc, hence the curve, with a dome for the sky

whether it is true or not my point still stands that not to keep an open mind is in my opinion an act of faith. Aloha, again you want to ignore what Christ was about. The other religions that you mention [altho i don't know much about wodan it is true] do not bring a crucial social and political message for our personal faith that can literally 'save' humankind. Salvation means saving us from ourselves, from our greed, from our resentment, from our feeling of being alone. We can save ourselves. And Christ showed us how. But none of us do it.

No they didn't (the ancient egyptions)

i thought salvation, traditionally at least, meant from death/hell. is that not true ruty?

I don't feel alone. So why would I need to be 'saved'? What for? What would happen?

aloha, you're crushing together a few concepts that - beauty, happy, good - that really won't work together in this way. they're too big & complex in themselves to be dealt with easily (where's a philosopher when you need one!).

but in passing, i'll just repeat what i put below - if you truly believe this life is all there is...then is it really ok, really enough to pursue your own happiness/success etc, in the face of so many suffering, struggling? it's an epicurean survival of the fittest in that case, not very warm & fuzzy at all really...

oh. i didn't watch qi...

enlighten? (if you can be arsed? )

soz, pleasure, NOT beauty

depends what you mean by traditionally laligo. As i said, if you read the retranlsation of the bible from aramaic without the Greek [which quickly makes it very specific and dogmatic] things look very different. And also a lot of that stuff was propelled by the Victorians, to keep us all in check.

oh roosmum you are suggesting that atheism is selfish because we only care about our own happiness? sorry but bllcks! atheists can care about other people, try to make the world a better place, do as they would be done by and so on without an instruction manual...