Really moved by reaction of faithful to the Pope.

[bamboostalks]

Realise that there is a huge amount of negativity and vitriol on here atm with regards to the Pope's visit. However mumsnet is for all and there are plenty of Catholics who are pleased to see him here. This is a thread to celebrate this. I was really moved at the reaction of people in Glasgow yesterday. It was so emotional to see the babies hepd up for his blessing, he really did radiate a serene presence. Love his message as well, it is time to be proud to be a Christian. Hope all those going to see him have a fantastic time.

"Can't the church ask God? presumably he knows if people are born gay."
The text that many who urge acceptance of homosexuality in the church quote is Matthew 19:11 "For there are different reasons why men cannot marry: some because they were born that way;" said Jesus. In the Gospel.

OMG, I'm quoting the bible. What has happened to me?!

Dione interestingly my mum was recently talking to a retired priest, who knew the pope during the early days and apparently earlier on he was a bit more of a maverick. But, like in any job, I suppose, the higher up he was promoted, the more he toed the party line.

Also, this priest was very very pro-women and my mum quoted him as saying something like "the Catholic Church, anti-women, it's the women who have kept it going all these years".

I may be mis-quoting but that was the gist of it, I feel...

AS you were...

Hi Nonno, I think that it is only human. Who amongst us hasn't been influenced by those around us? Even when we have gotten home and said to ourselves "wtf did I say?".

did NOT know about matthew 19.11, that's really interesting dione, thanks.

Yes that Matthew passage is interesting. That passage also includes a reference to eunuchs, but the fact that Jesus says 'they were born that way' makes it seem as if he is referring to men who have no interest in women, rather than simply men who have been castrated. As Christ came to amend the OT it makes a lot of sense.

Zephirine
Find that description of me as "unthinking religious zealot" fairly wide of the mark. Was clear by the op that I wanted to start a prayerful and appreciative thread. Do not think that makes me a zealot. Am happy to see the the thread move in whatever direction posters take it but find your assumptions patronising and incorrect.

bamboo - that really wasn't directed at you, but I can see why you read it that way. There was no zealotry in your OP.

It was the comment about schools that drew me in, actually, not the op - I heard various Christian spokespeople saying the same thing in the media during the pope's visit and spent most of last week shouting at the TV, so it was the last straw.

Let's not go down the faith schools debate route!! I am 8 days overdue and need to focus on my pineapple eating and lunges.

lol at lunges.

oh lord, please let bamboo's baby come out soon, all pinky and scrunchy and snuffly and healthy and hungry and SUPER-CUTE. PS and please can you use the 'hard work' translation of Eve's labour rather than the 'pain' one?

aaaaaaaaaamen.

oh bamboo, did not realise. You are talking very rationally for someone who is 8 days overdue. I couldn't enter into any discussions on here in the faith and spirituality section during my last pregnancy, particularly the end part, as I got so worked up it gave me contactions!! Actually, stick around and we'll try to lure in someone like unquietdad in for you to converse with - that will get your baby born tonight!
Seriously, thinking of you and wishing you a brilliant birth experience.

Actually Aitch completely off topic but perhaps to cheer up bamboo I didn't have the 'pain' translation at all with my last DC (although must admit I did have it with the other three!). Just a huge urge to push after my waters broke with no real pain, hope it's like that for you this time around Bamboo!

and THAT is your reward for being a good catholic.

Aitch , not sure about that though, DS2 is certainly making up for the lack of trouble he caused at his birth these days by systematically destroying the house... but perhaps that is my reward for spending too much time on mumsnet!

Dione's Matthew 19:11 quote is interesting. My Navarre (catholic approved!) bible says this: "Not all men can receive this precept [marriage], but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 19: 11-12)

So I really think it comes down to what the word 'eunuch' is supposed to mean here. have done a bit of research and I think that the Aramaic word m'haym-ne is translated as eunuchs here, but the root meanings of this word is: trusted ones, faithful ones and believers. In addition, m?haym-ne meant homosexual males because they were trusted around women that were married or were not of their family. They weren?t a threat in committing adultery with another man?s wife or in having pre marital sex with the women of the nation... anyway I'm sure POF could tell us all the details.

So I suppose if you believe that 'eunuchs' here does include homosexuals you could say that the bible indicates they may have been this way from birth... it's all very tenuous and arguable though (like a lot of things in the Bible I admit!). To me this does not mean nearly as much in terms of being able to back up an arguement as science finding some definite evidence... but then I suppose many people might argue that about the whole nature and existence of God

hehehe yes, it's a tricky thing, science...
thanks for that. v interesting, am hoping po will come back soon and expand even more.

Ah bamboo that's very exciting - good luck!

FreddyBaggo.. .. you said I could ask daft questions about being Catholic so here's another one. -- (This is open to other catholics to answer)

Is there a prayer for a good death - I thought I'd heard that some people pray for a good death. Is that right or have i got my wires crossed ? If there is such a prayer what is it? I remember my grandfather told me he'd prayed his sister would die in her sleep and she did.. he was v devout RC.

Also - back to my earlier question of praying to saints -(intercessions) just how do you do that... what's the wording !?? All I can think of is....
"Err could you put a word in for me re......... "

wisteriawoman - re asking the saints to intecede for us - there is nothing wrong with "could you put a word in for me re..." but "Saint So-and-So, Pray for us" is more usual.