Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

Original poster

Really moved by reaction of faithful to the Pope.

443 replies

bamboostalks · 17/09/2010 08:29

Realise that there is a huge amount of negativity and vitriol on here atm with regards to the Pope's visit. However mumsnet is for all and there are plenty of Catholics who are pleased to see him here. This is a thread to celebrate this. I was really moved at the reaction of people in Glasgow yesterday. It was so emotional to see the babies hepd up for his blessing, he really did radiate a serene presence. Love his message as well, it is time to be proud to be a Christian. Hope all those going to see him have a fantastic time.

OP posts:
Aitch · 22/09/2010 12:32

it would certainly put them in a corner, that's for sure. didn't someone post further down that catechism acknowledges that people are born gay?

daftpunk · 22/09/2010 12:33

One of my best friends on facebook is a lesbian. She's so excepting of religious beliefs, never tries to force her sexuality on to people. She even admits that gay people go to far sometimes and in their attempts to change religion. it's funny that a lesbian is so tolerant of me. I think politically she's a libertarian. Good for her.

FreddoBaggyMac · 22/09/2010 12:37

I think that was actually me Aitch BlushGrin I've said before I am not actually a priest and do make mistakes! I thought it did say that (I suppose because it's my own view at the moment! Very arrogant!) But when you look closely it really doesn't say one way or another and just says it is unexplained - which is really what science says at the moment isn't it? I'm sure there are some Catholics (and non catholics) for that matter who believe homosexuality is determined purely by nurture rather than nature, but also that there are many (like me) who think the opposite. Until science proves one way or another I think moving on is going to be very tricky.

Aitch · 22/09/2010 12:42

well that's what i had thought too, until you'd said that. thing is, and i know this is being picky, that i rather resent that science will have to come to the rescue of the church on what is essentially a moral (imo) issue. they shouldn't need science to sort it out for them, esp in light of the considerable amount of very good men who work for them already and are homosexual. (don't even get me started about the female priests thing... must go and get child from nursery).

FreddoBaggyMac · 22/09/2010 12:54

I don't think it would be 'coming to the rescue' of the church though, just uncovering some previously unknown fact that the church will need to take into account in it's teaching.
(Sincerely sorry I got that bit of info wrong by the way - but it just goes to show you should all go and read the catechism for yourselves and not trust what you read on the internet Smile)
you have reminded me about children Aitch... must go and attend to some of mine too.
DP, I am sorry that I always seem to ignore your posts. I do read them but am just wary that anything I comment on may lead to two pages of discussions and warnings about your politics! I think the only way we can have a reasonable discussion is if you namechanged which I can understand why you might not want to do.

daftpunk · 22/09/2010 13:04

Accepting - apologise for all typos

Speed typing on phone.

daftpunk · 22/09/2010 13:12

Oh FBM, don't worry about it, I'm not really talking to anyone in particular. I'm sunbathing in the garden, chilling out. Even have albatross playing on my iPod ( hippy) ha ha

Not taking any notice of half the posts tbh.

Re; namechanging. I'm not allowed to.

would be a waste of time anyway, I'd be outed within a day. I'm too obvious.

daftpunk · 22/09/2010 13:53

Ps; the reason I filled you in on the name change info was because I knew if I didn't, mouth almighty would.

if you ever want to know why, ( and I'm sure you couldn't give a monkeys) ask me to explain. That way you get the truth.

Anyway, this thread is going nowhere now so time to sign- off.

Been a pleasure talking to you.

Until the next time

X

FreddoBaggyMac · 22/09/2010 13:55

DP I'd honestly like to know your point of view on it (Why not? I've heard just about everyone else's!)

Aitch · 22/09/2010 14:01

i do think it would be coming to the rescue, tbh. it's a moral and ethical issue, not one of genetics.

daftpunk · 22/09/2010 14:18

Ok FBM, I will. But I have to go now. Also out tonight. (Chelsea game) I'll post my reply to you when i get in, probably won't be 'til around 11.00 pm. Look for it tomorrow Smile

FreddoBaggyMac · 22/09/2010 14:23

The morality and ethics of it wouldn't be changing though, the church would still be teaching exactly the same thing. It's just that it homosexuality was proven to have some genetic foundation I think the Church would be less hesitant to admit that people in it were homosexuals. It would be dangerous for them to do that now because there is a possibility that science could show that it is not genetic... the church is always going to err on the side of caution when it comes to any kind of change.

Anyway, my point is that I really don't think there's any alternative to this in terms of what the church is going to say about homosexuality. My opinion is the best we can hope for is that some prominent Catholic figures might be open about it and show how it is possible to be homosexual and live a fulfilled life whilst trying to abide by church teaching (Sorry, I am just repeating myself!) I think if you know that will not satisfy you and you still want to be catholic then you will have to opt to be a bit 'pick and mix' (which I know you don't want Sad). I really cannot see an alternative though...

FreddoBaggyMac · 22/09/2010 14:25

Anyway, I'm really really going as I have tons to do. So much for another of my mumsnet free days Wink Good to talk to you Aitch.

mathanxiety · 22/09/2010 15:06

'you are going to be in constant turmoil and that will be counterproductive. '

I think constant turmoil is always productive though. That's almost the whole point of it, to me. It's not supposed to be a serene, lobotomised, pat experience, with no questioning or struggle, even on the level of 'why do bad things happen to good people?'. The idea is to be engaged.

Aitch · 22/09/2010 15:11

i suppose it's when the church itself is doing bad things to good people that it gets trickier... Wink

mathanxiety · 22/09/2010 15:57

The church is people too, that's the eternal conundrum.

Aitch · 22/09/2010 19:46

well at the level from which these directives come down it's a just a few men, really, as political as they are religious if my uncle's time in rome is anything to go by.

daftpunk · 23/09/2010 13:46

Mathx;

No, I don't agree with that at all (your post of; 15.06.09 yesterday.)

The whole point of religion is having something in your life that gives it meaning, direction, and yes, why not some 'serenity'. I'm a catholic because I agree with 99% of what it's about. if I was constantly struggling with it's teachings it would be counterproductive for me and especially for my children. how could I bring my children up as catholic when i don't agree with it's fudamental principles. seems silly to me.

And do catholics struggle with the Q; "why do bad things happen to good people".... Of course we don't. we know why.

Natuaral disasters for example.

when 100's of innocent people are killed by floods, what happens?

our natural reaction is to help, to do all we can to make the suffering less. we are renewing our faith in ourselves, confirming that we are indeed good, kind and compassionate people, the people god wants us to be.

if nothing bad ever happened, how would we know this about ourselves. god is testing us.

onagar · 23/09/2010 14:17

Can't the church ask God? presumably he knows if people are born gay.

POFAKKEDDthechair · 23/09/2010 14:22

God's a lesbian anyway.

daftpunk · 23/09/2010 14:33

It doesn't matter if people are born gay, become gay in later life, or are gay for a few yrs and then drop it....

the song remains the same...

anyway...I'm filling in my on-line application for a job with the samaritans atm,

hours and salary excellent...

fingers crossed!

FreddoBaggyMac · 23/09/2010 14:38

DP, even if technically we 'know' why bad things happen to good people it is still a struggle to accept sometimes I think. When someone you love dies for example, however deep your faith is there is still a natural grieving process to go through. I don't think any of us can truly say we never have any doubts, after all even Jesus did at one point when he said 'My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?'. I do agree with Math's post, although I must admit I do get a bit fed up with the turmoil at times Smile. There is some serenity involved (about 1% of the time for me!) and the thing is that 1% serenity is actually completely worth the 99% turmoil. Wink

Onagar, yes the Church can ask God, and no doubt he will reveal the answer through the discoveries of science and get absolutely zero credit for it...

FreddoBaggyMac · 23/09/2010 14:39

The song does remain the same DP, but it would be easier to justify and discuss if there were more facts so we actually knew what we were talking about!

POFAKKEDDthechair · 23/09/2010 14:41

Oh my good god the idea of dp as a samaritan has just sent a shudder down my spine.

onagar · 23/09/2010 14:51

Daftpunk, you know I mostly don't argue against you any more. Partly because I suspect at least some of the time you are winding people up and partly because you seem to be the target of your very own hate campaign and don't need any more opposition.

Still you have just put forward an explanation for 'bad things happening' that is shared by some other religious people and should always be challenged since it is so vile and disgusting.

By that argument any amount of suffering, even for a child, is a good thing because it strengthens the faith of christians.

I was going to say that I'd like to put every christian who supports that face to face with the family of a dying child so they could explain how it is a good thing. Then I remembered that there have been plenty of instances of christians doing just that so no lesson would be learned.

"confirming that we are indeed good, kind and compassionate people" maybe I'm wrong and this was sarcasm? It surely couldn't be applied to anyone who thought the suffering of children or the persecution of homosexuals was a good thing.