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Cesar Milan On Radio 2 - do something...!

126 replies

smartmars · 23/11/2009 16:32

Steve Wright is featuring him on his show this week. It probably won't change but it would be good if Steve Wright gets to hear some opinions on how the public feel about this man's techniques and theories. I emailed him from the contacts page and told him what an 'anti CM' feel there is among professional trainers, behaviourists and academics. Come on all you professionals and dog lovers out there...

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BellaBonJovi · 23/11/2009 17:04

Oh yes - thanks for heads up! When is he due to be on the show?

smartmars · 23/11/2009 17:09

Sorry, don't know, I just heard this week some time. Isn't it crap, especially after they did that great pedigree dog documentary on TV

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BellaBonJovi · 23/11/2009 17:10

Think we should call up and ask a) why do the dogs always look terrified of him and b) why can't he control a dog unless he's poking it/ towering over it or yanking its lead?

BellaBonJovi · 23/11/2009 17:11

I know - but CM has a tour coming up so is no doubt plugging that

smartmars · 23/11/2009 17:21

I heard that. A colleague saw a clip of him on You Tube strangling a dog (as per) and the oxygen deprivation caused the dog to get an erection as it gasped on the floor afterwards. This phenomenon is known in humans (hence the misguided sex games where people die) and he said it proved the dog was dominant!!

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BellaBonJovi · 23/11/2009 17:24

Might have to send our old mate Steve some links...

I live in the middle of nowhere but I've heard that all you see in parks these days is people tapping and shushing their dogs

BellaBonJovi · 23/11/2009 17:34

He's on Graham Norton, BBC1 30 November.

Interestingly, found this on the BBC's own website:

Cesar sued

CybilLiberty · 23/11/2009 17:36

Cesars show is ultimately pointless as the disclaimers keep saying 'do not attempt these techniques'. So whats the point? Its a bit like lion taming isn't it?

smartmars · 23/11/2009 17:36

amazing. He must have a fabntastic PR machine behind him; most trainers would be dust by now if they did that. Links are a good idea.

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RTKangaMummy · 23/11/2009 17:37

he is also on Paul ogrady tomorrow {tues} which will be hard for Paul as he had his dog, Buster put down last week, cos of cancer

BellaBonJovi · 23/11/2009 17:39

If Cesar was a marriage guidance counsellor:

here

CybilLiberty · 23/11/2009 17:40

Is caesar really THAT bad (not a dog owner)

smartmars · 23/11/2009 17:42

Yup.

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smartmars · 23/11/2009 17:43

sorry, no time for detail as 18 month old wanting attention!

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BellaBonJovi · 23/11/2009 17:43

Oh feck yes, Cybil.

smartmars · 23/11/2009 17:43

I mean, what a cheek

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CybilLiberty · 23/11/2009 17:45

what about that posh S & M dog training bird?

BellaBonJovi · 23/11/2009 17:47

US already on his case:

here

No,Cybil, no dear. Read a book ,don't watch the telly.

smartmars · 23/11/2009 17:53

what Bella said. Victoria awful-pants' husband is a TV producer. 'Nuff said. She is Supernanny of dog world but with less empathy and kindness.

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SarahSon · 23/11/2009 17:55

A tour, radio, tv, probably a book signing or two... CM fever is going to take over the world isn't it?

How on earth can the few people who have enough knowledge about this to go against him when he has this much publicity going on?

It is pretty awful but I am not sure what can be done - on a radio show especially. On TV they can show clips but on radio they can just make you sound like a bit of a nutter. Mind you they wouldn't how most of the bad clips - too distressing to be shown at that time of day!

minimu · 23/11/2009 17:59

OMG why will people not realise what distress CM causes. The man uses such cruel old fashioned methods of training.

I have so many clients coming to me and say we have done what CM says and wonder why their dog is so paranoid.

One used a prong collar on a dog (god knows where they got it from) and the dog had such an anxiety disorder it would not go outside.

Another one growled whenever you stroked it on his side and the owners said we roll him over and forced him on the floor and now he is even more dominant!!!!!!!

All on for sending links to the BBC.

SarahSon · 23/11/2009 18:13

Having said that getting Paul O'Grady to watch a couple of the clips may have an effect on the publicity he gets on that show - although it may be pretty distresing for Paul, especially given the situation.

BellaBonJovi · 23/11/2009 18:36

There's a particularly notorious clip of him which - surprise! - seems to have disappeared off the web, but here's a vet behaviourist describing what he does:

Many of you may be aware of a National Geographic television show featuring a charismatic individual who helps dog owners. I recently came across this video on the website and I urge you to watch it (preferably without the sound so as not to be distracted by his talking) and keep your eye on the dog. Here is what you will see:

Within the first 5 seconds, the handler kicks the dog in the abdomen. When the dog turns toward him he is jerked off his feet. A struggle ensues where the handler gets bitten several times and the dog is seen to be struggling for air. Finally he gets the dog onto the ground and the dogs tongue is blue and the dog is gasping for breath. When he finally gets the dog up it appears that there might be urine on the ground and that the dog voided his bladder in distress.

What you have witnessed is not dog training but abuse. Not only does the dog suffer, but clients are at risk if they attempt these interventions themselves. These are not appropriate measures and compromise the welfare of the dog and the safety of people. His explanations are false and not based on science as we know it. We as veterinarians must make our voices heard and let National Geographic and most importantly our clients know that these types of interventions are wrong and not in the best interest of dogs or people.

libbygrayhair · 23/11/2009 19:19

I've skimmed through most of the comments posted at the link Bella provided. There are a lot of interesting comments there.

I've also watched a lot of his shows. I see a lot of common sense in his approaches to dealing with difficult behaviours (humans as well as dogs) but I think if I were to have one main criticism of his show is that it seems to me that along with his many years of familiarity with dogs of all kinds (breeds and behaviours) one of the reasons why his techniques work initially, but sometimes then fails, is because he has a presence about him that animals recognise. One of the examples of this is when he goes into a house where there's a dog that behaves badly towards strangers, and that dog doesn't react the same way towards CM. It seems he gives off different vibes from the owners, probably because of his years of experience and his self-confidence - something that some owners can have difficulty reproducing.

I also find it interesting how he gets the point across to owners to pay attention to their own behaviour, that their body language is something that a dog will pick up on. It's also interesting how quickly he controls dogs that rush to the front door and how he appears to do that simply by his presence. A lot of the episodes show how people can learn that themselves, because they see how it's done.

I wouldn't regard him as a dog trainer, per se, because he doesn't use verbal commands. I think he gives people a good insight into the relationship between human and dog. I wouldn't criticise him for using the term "pack leader", because that's a term that most people can understand. It's not totally about who's "top dog" or whatever, but it is about who is ultimately responsible for the welfare of all creatures in a household, and that has to be a human.

Also, I can't see (and haven't seen) how he could be using cruel techniques - he would have gone out of business a long time ago if that was the case.

smartmars · 23/11/2009 19:29

You serious? "Also, I can't see (and haven't seen) how he could be using cruel techniques - he would have gone out of business a long time ago if that was the case." Wish I lived on your planet. He is effective I grant, he is hugely charismatic and dogs certainly don't mess with him. Look up the term 'learned helplessness'; when an animal is given electric shocks in a cage whatever it does, and cannot avoid them regardless of how it behaves, it stops doing anything. Hence trainers who use coercive techniques appear very effective as they entirely suppress any behavior and the dog suddenly is so well behaved (if you want an utterly inhibited dog, which many people do).

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