Cesar Milan On Radio 2 - do something...!

[smartmars]

Steve Wright is featuring him on his show this week. It probably won't change but it would be good if Steve Wright gets to hear some opinions on how the public feel about this man's techniques and theories. I emailed him from the contacts page and told him what an 'anti CM' feel there is among professional trainers, behaviourists and academics. Come on all you professionals and dog lovers out there...

I guess it just comes down to the fact that some of us don't agree with abusing dogs. Quite simple really

Libby, I am quite prepared to accept there are many ways of achieving one result. I am not prepared to accept the use of prong collars, asphyxia, force, fear and the rest as a method for training dogs. I am quite prepared to admit that not every show is loaded with examples of the bad stuff, if you see my other comments on CM you will see that I am certainly not extreme in my views about him. The fact that you do not have the most terrible techniques in your face every time you switch on does not mean it does not happen, nor does it make it acceptable.

Here's what the American Humane Association think of Cesar:

here

Which is even more impressive when you take into consideration the fact that America in general have a much more loose interpretation of humane treatment of animals than we do in England in general.

Do the ASPCA have the same attitude to him?

Ok, so we have established that some people think thre is a problem and some don't. Same as most things in life!

For those of us who think there is a problem, what can we do? CM is coming to us, if ever there was a time to really get out there and let people know what the problems are (as we see it) then it is now isn't it?

What can be done, who can do it and how?

Ponders, I found this on the ASPCA blog, I read it as a very polite way of saying no they do not agre with the methods, that they destroy trust, they are certainly saying they do not use them.

Do you agree with Cesar Millan's methods (Dog Whisperer, National Geographic Channel)? Who are your mentors as far as dog training goes?
?Lynda

I am so glad you asked this question! We have very different methods and philosophies, although the ultimate goal is the same. We both want to keep dogs alive. I deal with a very different population of dogs than he does. If I attempted the style of training he practices, the results would not be successful. I work with severely abused animals who need to know they can trust people. I take a lot of different trainers? and behaviorists? methods and apply them to what I do. Two people from whom I have learned tons are Dr. Amy Marder and the ASPCA?s Dr. Pam Reid.

Yes, I saw that, but it was from this:

Animal Rehabilitation Chat Transcript
Victoria Wells, ASPCA Manager of Shelter Behavior and Training?November 30, 2007

not from a blog - when she says "we" she means Cesar & her - she's not talking for the ASPCA, afaik?

& I can't find any official line on him on their website.

Bella, I absolutely agree with you that abusing dogs is not acceptable. I just haven't seen yet any evidence that that is what CM does. And a single criticism of alleged asphyxiation, which I assume is the episode already referenced and in which I don't see cruelty only extreme behaviour by the dog, doesn't help the argument. As for electric shock collars, that was dealt with more than adequately in an episode where the owner experienced the effect, the maximum of which was not in the least bit painful to him. For the American Humane reference to describe that as forcing a tormented dog to experience pain seems to be at odds with the method used by CM in that particular episode.

SarahSon: That doesn't help in the debate, which is about how some Americans view CM's technique negatively. How dogs are treated in different countries is a debatable point, but here it's about how CM's techniques, practised in the USA, is regarded by other people in the USA, because that's all the proffered evidence has been about. As for how dogs are treated in the UK, people only need to look at the effects of inbreeding as a result of the Kennel Club requirements for showing dogs at Crufts ? but that's a different story, and one I would prefer not to have included here. The ASPCA blog comment refers to a different population of dogs, which of course requires different treatment. I really don't see that as a disagreement with CM's methods of dealing with the dogs he gets involved with.

And also note that she says

"I work with severely abused animals who need to know they can trust people"

which is not what he is working with. His mostly have bad habits (some caused by their owners, let's be fair!)

I don't need the ASPCA to tell me what he does is wrong
Sarahson - I suppose giving the BBC researchers our links would be a start?

Pardon? The quote I lifted is from the blog, by the manager of behaviour and training...yes we in the second sentance means her and cesar...

How can the ASPCA MANAGER OF BEHAVIOUR AND TRAINING in a transcript regarding animal rehabilitation posted on the official ASPCA blog not be talking for the ASPCA? who would she be talking for?

No, no official published line, like i said that is all I could find. TBH that wouldn't surprise me though.

cesar milan is the shewhowillnotbenamed of the dog world. discuss.

I am 2minded about CM.
I believe that some animals he does help but I believe he'd help more if he toned his techniques down abit.

I've not seen the clip that has been removed but my dog trainer was telling us about it the other day and just the description brought tears to my eyes so I'm kinda glad it's gone TBH.

He has all the mannerisms' that would help dogs more but I get annoyed when he kicks (and to an untrained eye it does look like a kick, most viewers remember are untrained) the dog to redirect or pokes him with his fingers (his bite)
He could so easily have distracted with food, or with a toy or just a call but instead he resorts to what looks cruel.

My main problem is that joe bloggs watches this and then does it himself. The amount of people i've seen lately at parks, shouting "shhhhh" at their dogs and kicking em all because he does it.

Not everyone is going to agree with everyone else but I do think that something should be done about him being here even if it is a more stern note about untrained people doing his stuff.

Re: follow-ups wasn't there a birthday celebration episode? Most of the dogs looked happy then?

Libby, I may be tired but I couldn't wade my way through the paragraph you wrote to me to get to the actual meaning, I am guessing you are disagreeing though? Fair enough.

Bella, I suppose so, I was thinking that a load of people sending the same thing over and again would not be the best approach though? Is there a way to get together all the links and clips that various people know of and send it all in a comprehensive collection IYSWIM?

FWIW, I am actually a GF fan

LS, that was the dogs from the first series AFAIK...yes they did look quite happy, they weren't all there though!

hi bella. any thoughts on my puppy thread?

I dunno what the dogs were, just saying that he's obviously working with some dogs.
Problem is he'd get MORE dogs through stuff if he wasn't so forceful and yes, aggressive with this tactics.

Transcripts of ASPCA Expert Chats

Well I hate SWMNBN have you heard what she does with babies and rockets?

Sophable, in some ways you are right - except it would be a better comparison if GF advocated slapping the baby on the hand to distract it from crying when it should be napping!

LS, I agree, like I said above, not every episode is filled with this stuff, he is not like this all the time. Sadly any of this behaviour is too much IMO.

I have said on previous threads, if he would drop all the rubbish he would be a great advocate for good dog training..such a waste!

EXACTLY Sarahson

So it is worth speaking to BBC (is it bbc with graeme?) and Radio 2. Even if it is just to get someone to ask him why he is forceful and that he'd help more if he toned it down.

Link to BBC complaints:

here