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Original poster

Dog had 'red mist' moment and bit DH, AIBU to think that with training this won't happen again?

197 replies

Antalya1 · 26/11/2013 23:03

We are a family with DS17 & DS20. About 4 weeks ago we got a rescue dog, he's about 2 ish and a cross between a shitsu and a yorkshire terrier we think. He's a little thing and has been an absolute joy and has brought a lovely new dynamic to our family.

As I was at home more of less for the first 3 weeks the dog has bonded with me and then next I suppose with DS20, we both have spent a lot of time playing and just generally being loving with him.
DS17 is indifferent and DH has been pretty loving also. We all take responsibility for feeding and walks.

As he was so shy and frightened when we first got him, we allowed him into our bed and he's just sort of stayed there.

When I'm working from home, he cuddles up and spends the day with me.

Over the last 10 days or so, the dog has been growling sometimes at DH, especially when DH comes near me, tries to stroke him, or DH tries to get in bed.

This evening I was sat in bed doing some work and DH came up to the bedroom, the dog started growling at DH so I told DH to pick him up and put him out of the room until he stopped. DH picked him up and the growling got much worse and the dog seemed as though he was going to bite DH, so DH dropped him, the dog sprang at DH and seemed to have a 'red mist' moment, jumping up and bit him, breaking the skin 4 times on his legs and stomach.

We were all really shocked. DH is OK and has been to be checked out but is really shaken and upset and talking about getting rid of the dog.

I'm devasteted, first that the dog who is incredibly loving mostly would do this to DH and also really frightened that DH will insist that we take the dog to a dog and cats home.

I've been in tears tonight thinking about this but I know that if there's a chance that he would do this again then there would be no choice. I've persuaded DH to wait until I can get in touch with a dog behavioural expert tomorrow and I'm pinning my hopes that there is something that they can do...AIBU to think about keeping my dog and that there is something we can do to stop this happening again?

OP posts:
peggyundercrackers · 27/11/2013 13:30

sorry but if i had a dog and it bit someone 4 times it would get a bit of lead behind its ear and that would be it. Sorry for me the circumstances around the bite and how it happened dont really matter, it would have been different if someone was teasting the dog or poking it with a tick but thats not the case. it would need to go no matter what.

Spero · 27/11/2013 13:42

As far as I understand it, the alpha dog pack theory bollox came from people who studied wolves in captivity - so animals already stressed and acting unnaturally. Wolves in the wild form family groups - there is a heirarchy but the younger wolves are not constantly jostling for power.

Dogs do not want to be 'top dog'. They are like children, they need boundaries, affection and to know you are in charge. When they react badly, it's not 'asserting alpha status' it's to say 'I am anxious and frightened' or 'angry and hungry'.

I went through all this don't feed the dog first, don't let dog into house first at my first puppy training and I can say with absolute confidence it is nonsense.

intitgrand · 27/11/2013 13:51

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Blistory · 27/11/2013 13:58

I’ve posted on the doghouse thread but there are some things you can do between now and any appointment with a behaviourist.
The dog will probably be giving off signals that he’s uncomfortable even before the growling starts. See if you can spot these as it might help identify what the initial problem is. For my girl, her ears go flat against her head, she shows the whites of her eyes, looks away from the threat, does a really quick lick of her nose and her tail goes into a really distinct down direction. Only after that would she growl. Recognising which of these signs your dog gives off will help you distract him before it escalates. He needs to know that he doesn’t have to react.
If he’s going to get on the bed, attach a long line to his collar – that way you can help remove him without anyone getting hurt but remember to reward him for getting down. I’m not suggesting that you pull at him, just use the line to assist.
Your husband needs to be the best thing that’s ever happened to this dog. So he comes into the room and showers dog treats everywhere. He finds out what game suits your dog, be it ball throwing, tug, whatever and he plays with the dog, ideally ending the game with another treat. He does the feeding, the walking, all of it, for a while to show the dog that really good things happen when your husband is around.
Growling gets ignored, not treated but not punished – redirect his behaviour to something that you want and he wants. So you want him off the bed – give him a bed to go to, preferably with another treat that he only gets when on his bed such as a stuffed kong or whatever floats his boat.
Persistence and consistency are the key

Blistory · 27/11/2013 13:59

Sorry about the lack of spacing

Spider7 · 27/11/2013 14:01

Absolutely what blistory said!

ErrolTheDragon · 27/11/2013 14:44

intitgrand - you've no idea how much thought and effort viva has put into this matter. She's not being irresponsible, quite the contrary.
Viva - huge respect you're making progress, and even huger respect for your DH.

mrsjay · 27/11/2013 14:54

OP i remember watching a programme about small dogs and how they can become anti social because owners do Baby them and pamper them love your dog but please dont feel sorry for your dog IYSWIM remmeber he is an animal with a bit of a shaky start and shady past you do not know what has happened to him before , free to a good home alwaus has be suspicious, you dont know your dog yet and he doesn't really know you be firm with him and dont smother him with human snuggles etc until you are used to him and he knows the boundries, good luck

VivaLeBeaver · 27/11/2013 15:06

Intitgrand. I wasn't asking your opinion so do one.

intitgrand · 27/11/2013 15:08

Truth hurts eh ?

VivaLeBeaver · 27/11/2013 15:15

You have no clue.

I've only posted bare details here. Haven't explained it all, the £hundreds of pounds spent on the best dog behaviourist professor in the country. Will trust his opinion over yours thanks. Hmm

So, no. Not a case of truth hurts. More a case of being pissed off with clueless twats spouting shit.

ElenorRigby · 27/11/2013 15:15

LMAO Funny funny thread! Grin

FlashDrive · 27/11/2013 15:20

I want to know does Luke like his new bed & what has Walters sister decided to do about the old one?

If its in good nick I agree it would be a shame to dump it Smile

OP listen to your vet & good luck

Binkyridesagain · 27/11/2013 15:23

My rescue staffy was a nipper, only DH though, she couldn't understand his body language and would nip out of fear. Last night I caught them both snuggled up in bed together.

It is possible to train them out of it, but it takes time and patience from every body. If at any time we had tried dominance or reducing her to bottom of the pack she would have reacted badly and I have no doubt would have been PTS, instead we gave her boundaries, treated her with love and kindness (something that she had never known) and showed her every day that our home is a safe place for her.

ElenorRigby · 27/11/2013 15:28

Viva la beaver who is the best dog behaviourist professor in the country these days?

ElenorRigby · 27/11/2013 15:32

Is it Mugford? Would have thought he dead by now lol

bumbumsmummy · 27/11/2013 15:33

The dog regards you as it's possession and now it's defending its territory

You can correct this however you will need to be consistent with the dog or it will get more confused and could potentially do some real harm

Order the book "think dog" so you can find out where you were going wrong

ErrolTheDragon · 27/11/2013 15:33

Some people seem to have a peculiar sense of humour. Hmm

BackOnlyBriefly · 27/11/2013 15:58

"snarls at dh every single day. But he hasn't bitten him in quite some time"

Lucky DH

He doesn't growl and go for everyone he sees now on walks like he used to

That must be a relief for the neighbours. Though I expect you mean you had him on a tight leash.

VivaLeBeaver · 27/11/2013 16:27

Of course I did, and muzzled after the first week. Hmm

I only posted to give advice to the OP. Tis isn't about me, its not about my dog. So I'd appreciate you kept any advice for the OP. I don't need or want any and my father died yesterday so I can really do without any more upset.

OneMoreChap · 27/11/2013 16:32

Mmm.
Our dogs are allowed on the bed.
When we feel like it.

Either of us has a veto.

Can't see this ending well while boundaries remain to be set.

ErrolTheDragon · 27/11/2013 16:41

Viva - Flowers. Sorry about your father, and sorry people can be so snappy and judgemental.

ZombieMojaveWonderer · 27/11/2013 16:47

It's a rescue dog! Who knows what horrible things have happened to him in the first 2 years of his life! You should have found a behaviourist as soon as he started growling as that's a sign that something isn't right. I have to say that I have never heard anything so stupid as what you told your husband to do! I'm sorry but growling is a warning and your made your husband ignore it which resulted in him being bitten. I don't blame your husband for wanting to get rid because I've been bitten quite a few times in my teens when I worked at a rescue centre and by mums dog, who was then put down because it turned out I wasn't the first! You might be able to sort it out with training but be warned when your kids have kids and come visiting with your grandkids you may want to lock the dog away because in his current state I wouldn't trust that dog as far as I could throw him. Harsh I know but I have first hand experience.

AscoyneDAscoyne · 27/11/2013 16:57

elenor the op came on here asking for advice, you seem to be here to sneer and take the piss out of those trying to help. Is that how you get your laughs? Weird.

viva I found your post informative and lovely to hear from somebody responsible and committed. Sorry to hear about your dad.

D0oinMeCleanin · 27/11/2013 17:10

Viva has worked damn hard with that dog and keeping her was something she did not take lightly, she listened to professionals and worked with them. She even went so far as to consider re-homing the dog via a responsible rescue. The fact that the dog is now improving is testament to the amount of thought and work (and money) she has put into making the situation safe and happy for all, including the dog. She doesn't deserve to be slated for that. If more owners were like that the world would be a much safer place. Save your anger for those who can't be arsed to go to half of the trouble that Viva has.

Well done Viva, I'm glad it's all working out for you. OP, I've not looked at your doghouse thread yet, but I know you will get good advise there. Keep working at it, it will improve, myself, Viva and many others have been in similar places and are always here to lend a shoulder and give some pointers. Good luck.

PS. Pack theory is bollocks.