Schools reopening

[user1468867871]

AIBU to share with you UsforThem. It is a group of mums who are campaigning to send children back to school as normal with no restrictions. They can be found on FB and Twitter #UsforThem. There is also a link to sign the petition on FB

MrsArchchancellorRidcully

*No sd of the children. But teachers keep 2m away and from each other. Each teacher has a strip around their desk on the floor which the children cannot cross.

They are allowed to break the 2m rule to comfort a child or help with their work but only for as short a time as possible. Lots of hand washing.*

So they are running a form of social distancing then.

Yes I want them back, full time.

I also would prefer teachers to have the option to wear a visor if it facilitates the return.

The deshielding letter specifically states those 90,000 children can only return to school if signficant social distancing is in place as well as handwashing etc, so I'm not sure what the plan is for all those children if social distancing in schools is removed

My question is: are you all prepared for more school closures under rolling local lockdowns?

Anything that involves the mixing of large groups of people without social distancing is going to increase the likelihood of second outbreaks.

Are your employers going to let you have two weeks off or two weeks WFH on a fairly regular basis because your city has gone back into lockdown. Can you afford it?

What about lost learning because of an inconsistent education system cause by rolling lockdowns?

Full time school is the solution to nothing. It is a bunch of people pretending there isn’t a problem.

It’s moronic in the extreme and totally unhelpful.

One thing this virus has taught me is how many people entirely lack the ability to empathise with anyone else's position. It's pretty unpleasant.

@FrippEnos yes of course. No one saying it should be normal like pre lockdown. But children cannot play or interact with their peers with sd. It's the sd of children we're against.

Let's face it, except very small children not many teachers spend a lot of time cuddling older kids 🙄

And private nurseries have reopened with no sd at all and their staff have been fine. My friend is a special needs teacher with children who need at least 2 members if staff per child for toileting etc. They've never sd throughout cos they can't.

I'd be happy for high school kids to wear face masks in corridors between lessons.

As for shielded yes that's an issue but not sure what the solution is I'm afraid. Same as those kids who have long term illness in normal times I guess. Perhaps the shielding teachers can do live online lessons for the shielded children. But ultimately we all have to make choices. Done shielded people I know have decided to live their lives, take reasonable precautions and get on with life.

But I'm sorry. Millions of children shouldn't suffer because of 90,000. As harsh at that sounds life is often very unfair. Tell that to my 8 yr old who tells me he wants to die cos he misses school. Tell that to him when he hates remote learning and refuses to do it. I've tried to get him some mental health help but can't cos, covid. Tell that to the 9 sets of parents who's child died of sepsis and similar because they were too scared to take them to a&e cos, covid. It's shit and unfair but is what it is.

@MrsArchchancellorRidcully

Private nurseries have tiny bubbles. DD’s nursery has bubbles of 15 with the four members of staff exclusive to that bubble. No one moves between rooms. Very few children attend full time. They mostly play outside and have to wash their hands six times a day.

Not quite the same really.

Secondary teachers might not be cuddling kids but we do spend long periods of time indoors with large groups of people. Many of whom have not developed a sense of personal hygiene.

I see more of other people’s bodily fluids than you would believe.

@MrsArchchancellorRidcully

What about the disruption of rolling lockdown?

Surely it is better to develop a decent online learning platform nationally rather than leave it up to individual schools.

Millions of students are going to miss further weeks of school because of local lockdowns. They are most likely to be students in poorer inner city areas.

How does your plan of lumping them all back into the classroom in Sept do anything to mitigate that?

I ask again: can you afford another lockdown in your area?

Avoiding mass gatherings is the only way to stop this from happening.

Scotland’s plan is very sensible. At least students and parents know what to plan for and it forces workplaces to be more flexible with parents.

What parents haven’t yet realised is that the government have shafted them and their children because they want to get the economy going.

In the end it will probably have the reverse effect.

How many times can businesses afford to close and reopened? How many days can you take off work because school is fully shut?

@MrsArchchancellorRidcully

No one saying it should be normal like pre lockdown. But children cannot play or interact with their peers with sd. It's the sd of children we're against.

Are you including older children in that that seem to be outside of the scope of most the research?

Let's face it, except very small children not many teachers spend a lot of time cuddling older kids 🙄

Ah yes the roll eyes emoji, it solves everything.

Teachers spend a lot of time in close proximity to the children, sat by them, kneeling next to them, leaning around them, and in some subjects using the same equipment as they are using. (cleapss guidelines are for all equipment to be used only by the child and sterilised after use).

And unless things change most practical subjects even if they are allowed to go ahead will not have a practical element to them.

Most children will survive missing a few months of education and come out reflectively unscathed. However let’s be clear, missing 3 months (it’ll be more like 5 by September) will have significant affects on some children. Some children will have experienced an increase in abuse during ‘lockdown’ due to lack of safeguards and increasingly stressed parents etc.

I’m not sure what the right answer is personally but I know the risks can’t be oversimplified and there are lot of competing risks to balance.

Do you ever get in a car? Do you ever fly on a plane? I'm sure you do. I'm sure you know some people have died in car accidents and plane crashes. I'm sure you weigh up in your head whether the gain you get from using the car or traveling via plane is worth the risk?

This stupid argument gets trotted out time and time again, it's tedious and means nothing.

When taking part in any activity there are almost always risks. When we get into cars we put on seat belts, to minimise the risk. Why shouldn't schools minimise the risk to staff? Why take unnecessary risks just because some parents demand schools be "back to normal".

The sooner they realise that's not going to happen the way they want it the better for everyone and proper planning can take place.

@BelleSausage

My question is: are you all prepared for more school closures under rolling local lockdowns?

Anything that involves the mixing of large groups of people without social distancing is going to increase the likelihood of second outbreaks.

Are your employers going to let you have two weeks off or two weeks WFH on a fairly regular basis because your city has gone back into lockdown. Can you afford it?

What about lost learning because of an inconsistent education system cause by rolling lockdowns?

Full time school is the solution to nothing. It is a bunch of people pretending there isn’t a problem.

It’s moronic in the extreme and totally unhelpful.

What's the solution to that then?

Local lockdowns (psychological terrorism) will affect lots of people negatively. Financially, mentally, physically.

They're not the answer. Keeping schools closed isn't the answer either.

12:52formerbabe

"So when will it be safe for you@tabbymumz? Are you waiting for a vaccine?"
No I'm waiting for a sensible decision to be made, based on numbers and a sensible approach to help stop the virus as much as we can.

@TabbyMumz

12:52formerbabe

"So when will it be safe for you@tabbymumz? Are you waiting for a vaccine?"
No I'm waiting for a sensible decision to be made, based on numbers and a sensible approach to help stop the virus as much as we can.

And what would you consider a sensible decision?

TrustTheGeneGenie

In order to have a sensible decision IMO, there has to be transparency behind how it is reached.

At the moment not only do we not have that we also don't have a government that can be trusted.

"It also ignores the effects of lockdown on children's mental health."

I think there are 2 sides to this. Lots and lots of children have had better mental health because of lockdown, not worse. I think it's a bit disingenuous to jump to thinking the other way, ie that that lots are suffering poor mental health. Kids are more robust than you think. I reckon in years to come, there will be studies done that prove its helped lots of kids to step off the busy stressful treadmill of school /activities etc. There was another thread on here the other day where lots of parents were saying their kids are doing great and loving it. After all who wouldnt want 3 months off school!!

@FrippEnos

TrustTheGeneGenie

In order to have a sensible decision IMO, there has to be transparency behind how it is reached.

At the moment not only do we not have that we also don't have a government that can be trusted.

Absolutely agree with that.

@formerbabe

Which has killed ZERO children under the age of 15 in Scotland

Exactly. It genuinely blows my mind that with that statistic in front of you, people can still whine on about whether it's 'safe' for their child to be in school. What does 'safe' even mean?

We're so lucky the school leaving age is 14 then aren't we, so there aren't classes of 15+ year olds with no social distancing spreading it to each other and their unprotected teachers. It's thanks to - in some, not all cases - over-privileged numpties in the likes of Usforthem that that is exactly the situation teachers in Scotland find themselves in. With no time to prepare or alter blended learning plans (though that one is on the government for when they decided to do a complete u-turn on their plans.

"And not one of you commented on the Netherlands plan I shared."
I do hate it when people compare the UK to other countries. It matters not a jot what they are doing in the Netherlands, different people, different ethos entirely.

I think a lot of members of us for them are concerned not only about education but about losing their jobs.

In fact a lot of these women will be the total opposite of privilege. They won't be able to work from home in their lovely house. They won't be able to stay at home and rely on their husbands enormous wage.

This isn't about privilege at all, it's the lack of it.

It's a privileged position to be in to be able to choose not to send your child to school and be able to care for them whilst still paying your mortgage.

I'm referring really to some I've seen interviewed/recognise on SM. Smaller place here. One campaigning about this for example despite sending her dc to private schools. You can't doubt that privileged people tend to get the ear of the government more!

It's privileged to even have a mortgage, if we play that game!

@Mistressiggi

I'm referring really to some I've seen interviewed/recognise on SM. Smaller place here. One campaigning about this for example despite sending her dc to private schools. You can't doubt that privileged people tend to get the ear of the government more!

I personally don't care who campaigns for it as long as someone does. Our children deserve better, and many of us believe it or not have to go back to work at some point. I'm lucky (?) In a sense that I'm starting a job within the NHS so I should be able to send my son back regardless but will be get taught? Or will I have to do that myself at the weekend.

It's a shitty, shitty situation. It might save some lives, but.... Lockdown will take lives too. 60 thousand extra cancer patients are expected to die due to lockdown for instance.

"After all who wouldnt want 3 months off school!!"

My son wouldn't. It has been horrendous for some disabled children and their families some of whom are still not being allowed to return even though the rest of their year group has.