Schools reopening

[user1468867871]

AIBU to share with you UsforThem. It is a group of mums who are campaigning to send children back to school as normal with no restrictions. They can be found on FB and Twitter #UsforThem. There is also a link to sign the petition on FB

Statistics help to manage risk. Statistics show that adult to adult transmission (or 15+) is the risk. So focus resource on SD between teachers and teachers or teachers and parents. Look at PPE for nursery drop offs where staff and parents have to interact.

Kids in primary schools don't need to take the same measures as older secondary. If age 15+ children transmit the disease as it is starting to appear they might, don't punish 5yr olds.

I don't understand. Private nursery schools are open, childminders are, people are working driving buses and in supermarkets... apparently there is meant to be social distancing but I've seen that being continually flouted in shops. How are all these people willing to work?

So much misinformation and dementoring on this thread.

Firstly to clear up a couple of facts - Us for Them is not a few mums. It's a group of people of both sexes, mostly parents but also teachers and grandparents. People who are hugely concerned about the disproportionate effect which Covid has had on children.

The Scottish group has had huge effect by challenging the Scottish government's plan for "blended learning" which was part-time school for the whole of next year. 8000 of us in the group contacted MSPs, local councillors, teh first Minister and everyone else saying that part-time school was not acceptable. Our children need full time education, in school. That's what the group is demanding.

Figures coming out of numerous studies across Europe - where many schools have gone back, as normal, without social distancing seem to indicate that children are not at risk of either spreading it to each other, or to adults, but that adults might spread it to other adults in a school setting. Also, community infections are declining all the time.

So demanding a return to full time education for our children is not condemning thousands of staff to death. Staff distance from each other. Children don't need to distance.

Agree that the hysterical responses prove that the word "safe" is meaningless and people can't evaluate risk. People are perfectly happy to drive their kids to school or take them horseriding. But sitting in a classroom isn't "safe".

We need to face up to where England is.

Everyone in with no restrictions has too high a risk of outbreaks, imo.

Everyone at home (or rather where we are now) is not warranted by current levels.

The numbers of cases circulating in England plus what we know about how it spreads plus the economic impact of failing to control it over winter seems to suggest we need some distancing in schools.

The problem is we haven't got anyone leading us, and things are falling apart.

It amuses me that mumsnet was full of people saying how terrible it was we didnt lockdown sooner, but now they all think noones at risk. Covid is still here. It hasnt gone away.

Plus it's only been 3 months. Children will survive without having an education for 3 months. They will even survive if we are a bit more cautious into the next term. I think we still need to be cautious.

We locked down to slow the spread and protect the nhs...I was fine with that and we've achieved that aim. The nightingale hospital was barely used. We didn't lockdown to eradicate covid did we? Because it's not going anywhere. Should we wait for a vaccine? What about chicken pox? Children can and do die from that. If there's a case in school, the school doesn't shut. There's even a vaccine for chicken pox and its not routinely given to children in the UK. I've never heard a parent keep their child away from school to protect them from cp.

Yup, "surviving". That's what we want for our kids. Never mind an education, never mind the vulnerable kids slipping through the gaps, the parents tearing their hair out trying to educate their children and work at the same time, never mind the mental health problems and social isolation, never mind that paediatricians are BEGGING parents to seek treatment for serious illnesses.

As long as they don't get Covid19. Which has killed ZERO children under the age of 15 in Scotland. Just yesterday, a child was killed in a Edinburgh car accident and a teenager drowned in a river in Glasgow.

But it's Covid you have to worry about.

@SockYarn

Unfortunately for you, staff can vote with their feet. There are nearly 2,500 infilled teaching jobs currently being advertised for September. That’s quite a few classes without a permanent teacher.

The directive ‘don’t worry, you might not die’ doesn’t seem to be comforting anyone. Perhaps try a more supportive message.

I’m going to ask this again: why are teachers uniquely being asked to work without any protection when there are alternatives that still provide ALL (and not just the NT, able bodied students without health issues) students an uninterrupted education?

Where is the consistency? Inner city students are the most likely to be disadvantage and are now most likely to have to go back into localised lockdown and miss schooling. What about them? Opening schools without restrictions increases the likelihood that they will miss more schooling.

I guess no one was ever actually worried about disadvantaged kids and their communities.

The Scottish plan is a good one.

Which has killed ZERO children under the age of 15 in Scotland

Exactly. It genuinely blows my mind that with that statistic in front of you, people can still whine on about whether it's 'safe' for their child to be in school. What does 'safe' even mean?

It's not unfortunate for me. I have completed my education. It is unfortunate for my children, who are being deprived of theirs.

And before you mention other countries: Denmark is in no way comparable to the U.K. Their outbreak was minuscule. And they had it well under control before they sent all student back.

We still have around 150 deaths a day and large localised outbreaks and no track and trace system.

AND the US has just bought out the world stock of the drug that has been hailed as a ‘cure’.

Oh and the "Scottish plan is a good one" you mean the part time school, "blended learning" proposal which would see each pupil in school 30% of the time?

Amazing.

@SockYarn

Yes, it is unfortunate for them. Especially as the plan you are pushing is the most risky and likely to end in further school closures.

What you are campaigning for is going to cost more lives and lesson time and lock thousands of children out of education in the long term.

It is such short term thinking that it blows my mind that you think it is a reasonable plan.

It will only cost parents jobs and money to have further school closures. A return to full time schooling before the outbreak is properly under control is going to lead to more school closures, especially in the winter term.

Scotland also have less risk, because they got their cases lower.

@formerbabe

Which has killed ZERO children under the age of 15 in Scotland

Exactly. It genuinely blows my mind that with that statistic in front of you, people can still whine on about whether it's 'safe' for their child to be in school. What does 'safe' even mean?

There is 'safe' in terms of individual risk to X child and safe in public health/disease spreading terms.

I feel pretty unworried on the first and very worried on the second.

"Exactly. It genuinely blows my mind that with that statistic in front of you, people can still whine on about whether it's 'safe' for their child to be in school. What does 'safe' even mean?"

You are missing the point entirely. It's not just about the children. It's the adults attached to those children, such as parents grandparents etc. Teachers and their families. Then there are the people that child comes into contact with at the shops, on a walk, etc etc. And there we go, it all starts again. It's not just about the children. I have a vulnerable person at home and two others in my family living elsewhere. I dont want my child bringing it home, to them.

I have a vulnerable person at home and two others in my family living elsewhere. I dont want my child bringing it home, to them

Yes but tens of thousands of people die from flu every year in the UK. Your DC could pick that up at school and pass it on.

@BelleSausage the drug that has been proven to be effective in the UK trial is out of patent and costs around £5

"11:17SockYarn

Yup, "surviving". That's what we want for our kids. Never mind an education, never mind the vulnerable kids slipping through the gaps, the parents tearing their hair out trying to educate their children and work at the same time, never mind the mental health problems and social isolation, never mind that paediatricians are BEGGING parents to seek treatment for serious illnesses."

I was being sarcastic saying surviving. They will be perfectly fine missing 3 months and maybe a bit more. I am completely unperturbed at this for my child. It is what it is, we had to have lockdown. I'm definately not at the panicking stage over missing 3 months. Plenty kids miss more and are absolutely fine. And it's an even playing field. Most kids are missing out, so all behind really.

Dont see how opening schools up would help kids getting to paediatrician appointments though?

"Yes but tens of thousands of people die from flu every year in the UK. Your DC could pick that up at school and pass it on"

I think it's been well established that this is much severe than flu, isnt it. And you could go on "oh but they could crash in the car blah blah" yes they could, but covid is a current massive risk that I can ward against. I cant stop a car crashing into them etc, but we can all as a country prevent unnecessary deaths from covid. And that's what we should be doing...not protesting to put our kids and others at risk for goodness sake.

So when will it be safe for you @tabbymumz? Are you waiting for a vaccine?

@TabbyMumz schools are a safe haven for countless children because abuse and neglect are picked up. It is very much needed for many thousands to keep them safe from other things except Covid.

There was a welsh child counsellor yesterday saying before lockdown they routinely saw multiple child protection referrals from schools all over the UK. AT least one a day. Referrals that qualified teachers are trained to pick up on: neglect, abuse, sexual trauma plus teachers are a safe space to confide in.

Since lockdown there have been ZERO referrals. Do you think the abuse has magically gone away? Since schools reopened on day 1 there were still no referrals.

This is because school is not compulsory at the moment. Abused kids aren't sent to school.

For me this is way more urgent.

I think it's easy to say 3 months plus of missed education won't harm a child if you are talking about a younger aged primary school aged child. Not quite so easy to say for secondary aged kids trying to sit exams.

In Scotland the "blended learning" model was talked about being in place for most of the next academic year. With some kids only getting face to face teaching one day per week. That's a lot of missed education for kids trying to prepare for exams, especially if doing more practical subjects.

It also ignores the effects of lockdown on children's mental health.

And not one of you commented on the Netherlands plan I shared. No sd with children, the grown ups kept safe by having sd in place for them.

When you're out and about follow the 2m rule and teachers have no worries. Just make sure you stay at home mostly. I'm hoping none of you saying schools aren't safe to reopen fully are going to the zoo, or to restaurants this weekend or the cinema when it opens. If you do, you're bloody hypocrites the lot of you.