Schools reopening

[user1468867871]

AIBU to share with you UsforThem. It is a group of mums who are campaigning to send children back to school as normal with no restrictions. They can be found on FB and Twitter #UsforThem. There is also a link to sign the petition on FB

MrsArch where are you getting R rate of 7 for flu from? Covid is more contagious than seasonal flu with R rate of 2.5-2.9 when we locked down??

The point about not shutting schools for seasonal flu is that unlike with covid, children most definitely are super-spreaders and more children die of flu each year than of covid so far. However, we don’t shut schools each flu season. If we really wanted to protect people we would do away with the six week summer holiday and close for six weeks at Christmas. We don’t because flu deaths are normalised in our society and covid is a new virus. There is no logic to this at all. The virus is endemic and we have can’t eliminate it from society completely because it can spread asymptomatically so test and trace finds it difficult to catch all cases. We have to learn to live with it and it is not sustainable to keep schools mostly closed for pupils long term. Without parents able to work we won’t be able to pay for a functioning NHS or education system anyway.

The usforthem started in Scotland. And as a result of this campaign the working assumption is children will now go back full time in August, unless a spike in infection rates. Before that uturn by the deputy first minister, blended learning was the default position for August.

For many this meant 30% time in school with a teacher. Some secondary kids were only going in 1 day per week.

Infection rates here in Scotland are dropping. We had 4 consecutive days with no reported deaths. 450 people in hospital as of yesterday with covid, 5 in icu.

If the figures keep on the downward trend why on earth would we want children to continue to miss our in their education? Online learning hasn't exactly been a success.

And while flu isn't the same illness, it does kill thousands per year in this country. And that's with a vaccine that's widely available. It barely gets a mention on the news - usually after the fact - oh that was a bad flu season kind of thing.

@SarahMused

The point about not shutting schools for seasonal flu is that unlike with covid, children most definitely are super-spreaders and more children die of flu each year than of covid so far. However, we don’t shut schools each flu season. If we really wanted to protect people we would do away with the six week summer holiday and close for six weeks at Christmas. We don’t because flu deaths are normalised in our society and covid is a new virus. There is no logic to this at all. The virus is endemic and we have can’t eliminate it from society completely because it can spread asymptomatically so test and trace finds it difficult to catch all cases. We have to learn to live with it and it is not sustainable to keep schools mostly closed for pupils long term. Without parents able to work we won’t be able to pay for a functioning NHS or education system anyway.

This. Totally agree with all you say here

@897654321abcvrufhfgg we will see over the next 2-3 weeks if this is a concern. If it is, childminders, nursery workers and private school teachers will go down with Covid 19. If they are NOT the key occupations in the next wave, its not a valid concern. Especially as childminders and nursery staff work completely without adult-child social distancing.
Nurseries and childminders have been back a month now, private schools almost 3 weeks.

@MrsArchchancellorRidcully

And you know what any death is sad. You do know deaths occurred before Covid yes? 50,000 excess flu deaths in 2017/18 I believe. Flu has an R rate of 7. Yet we don't close schools. I KNOW covid isn't flu. Point is it's not the only thing that kills. Or don't they matter? I'd quite like to get a smear test so I don't die of cervical cancer. I'd quite like to keep my job so I can do things like Leto food on my table. I notice no one had suggested what I can do in sept with ds if the schools don't go back. Might just have to leave him home alone but that's ok, there have been no cases of child referrals from schools due to abuse since March so I won't get caught 🤦🏼‍♀️

This is a good point. Of course there will be risk of Covid spreading as more children go back to school, but that needs to be balanced against the risks of continuing in lockdown (with schools closed to many children) for a long period.

I’m not saying it’s right for all children to go back in September. I’m just saying it’s not as simple as just keep children off school to keep everyone safe.

Yesterday I was reading that there has been a increase in online child sexual abuse globally. With apparently more ‘content’ being made and shared globally. Again I’m not saying this means all kids should be back in school, but we do need to stop pretending that keeping large groups off children off school for an extended period doesn’t also cause harm too.

Sorry I meant an increase in sexual
Abuse online since the lockdown period.

NHS nurseries for the children of staff have been open throughout with a problem. As have schools for key workers. This is a disease that is around 10,000 times more dangerous for an 85+ year old than an under 15. The logical action would be to protect the most vulnerable and let the rest of us get on with it. That would cost a tiny proportion of the amount the government has had to spend after terrifying everyone witless into staying in their homes for months on end.

I signed it.
I am a parent and a TA. Covid-19 is going nowhere, we can't work like this forever. School is a horrible place missing all the lovely togetherness that makes it what it

In The Netherlands they have gone back full time. This is how they've done it:

No sd of the children. But teachers keep 2m away and from each other. Each teacher has a strip around their desk on the floor which the children cannot cross.

They are allowed to break the 2m rule to comfort a child or help with their work but only for as short a time as possible. Lots of hand washing.

Parents nervous at first but now virtually all kids back to school.

There you go.

I’ve said here twice already that I appreciate schools need to be back full time, the issue I have is with people calling for all other measures to be over. People who say things like ‘just get on with it, children aren’t at risk’ and ‘get schools back as normal’. In order for schools to be open full time there have to things in place, like staggered start and finish times and, as above, distancing between staff and pupils. I’m sure some people want schools to be exactly the same as they were before.

www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3090440/coronavirus-face-masks-save-lives-japanese-study-says.

But teachers can’t wear them😡 study saying widespread mask wearing reduces the risk of dying by 70%.

So sure, let’s open up all the schools with no PPE

formerbabe

I'm with you op.... children are not really at risk. Anyone with some sort of functioning intellect can see that looking at the statistics. Number of deaths of people under 40 is really a tiny proportion of all deaths. Vulnerable people should shield and everyone else should just get on with their lives.

Anyone with any ‘functioning intellect’ would understand that schools have adult staff.
Lots of them.

Oh, and they’re not all under 40.

Also... School here is open to ALL year 10 pupils.
Just under half this year group has returned.
Why do you think the other half have stayed at home?

@Duckfinger

I signed it. I am a parent and a TA. Covid-19 is going nowhere, we can't work like this forever. School is a horrible place missing all the lovely togetherness that makes it what it

missing all the lovely togetherness

We can't just let the virus spread because some adults can't emotionally handle distancing etc.

The adults who want everyone back into schools are willing to take very big risks and they can't ethically ask others to do that.

We shouldn't all be at home, but we shouldn't be in normal pre-covid school either.

England does not have the virus under full control, but neither is the risk super high. We need an approach based on the reality.

@therealkittyfane

formerbabe

I'm with you op.... children are not really at risk. Anyone with some sort of functioning intellect can see that looking at the statistics. Number of deaths of people under 40 is really a tiny proportion of all deaths. Vulnerable people should shield and everyone else should just get on with their lives.

Anyone with any ‘functioning intellect’ would understand that schools have adult staff.
Lots of them.

Plus children have parents who are very often over 40.

I'm all for getting children back in school, and some schools' approach this term, denying access to school for large numbers of children, has been disgraceful.

But "no restrictions"? Er no. Not even going to look that up.

Plus children have parents who are very often over 40

Well those who don't want their DC to go to school should be allowed to keep them off. I'm desperate for my DC to go back. But apparently neither my dh or I have chosen a career which entitles our DC to an education. Dam.

Just being alive is a risk, walking down the road is a risk. Kids can die from chicken pox, getting run over, being stabbed, meningitis, sepsis...

We need to learn to live with risk. The actual risk of covid is low to most people. If you're particularly at risk, then shield.

formerbabe
We need to learn to live with risk. The actual risk of covid is low to most people. If you're particularly at risk, then sheild

Yeh.
Tell that to the people who have died from COVID who had no idea that they were at ‘risk’.
Those that had no (or no known) underlying health problems.
Not forgetting the many healthy people who have died.

Oh no, Silly me. You can’t... they are dead.

The number of people under 40 who have died is a few hundred apparently...it's something like 88% of deaths are in those over the age of 60...very sad for them and their families obviously but statistically it's a small risk. That's kind of the point of statistics and risk assessment. It doesn't mean it won't happen or its not sad, it just means the chances. We all take chances every day...just getting in a car is a risk. Tens of thousands die every year from flu. You do realise people die don't you? From all manner of things. Death isn't exclusive to covid.

Risk. As above we need to learn to live with this. We seem to have lost the ability to do this. If we wait until this mythical "safe" day we are waiting forever whilst our children languish without education. Could not agree with formerbabe more.

Those that cannot accept the risk must stay at home and make their own arrangements for education.

It really is that simple.

formerbabe
That's kind of the point of statistics and risk assessment.

Sadly, a lot of people do think like a computer.
We are all just a number. A statistic.

You have to view risk as a number... otherwise you'd never do anything.

Do you ever get in a car? Do you ever fly on a plane? I'm sure you do. I'm sure you know some people have died in car accidents and plane crashes. I'm sure you weigh up in your head whether the gain you get from using the car or traveling via plane is worth the risk?

loulou

Those that cannot accept the risk must stay at home and make their own arrangements for education.
It really is that simple.

Great. So, your child’s teacher along with many of their colleagues make the decision that they cannot accept the risk.

They decide not to return to teaching.
Who is going to teach your child?

There really aren’t that many people queuing up to join the profession and take their place... there has been a recruitment crisis for years.