Not racist, come hither.

[Drabarni]

Now I have your attention.
If you think you aren't racist please look at this and if you feel like gettig behind this
Thank you very much.

www.travellerstimes.org.uk/news/2019/10/politicians-pledge-their-support-gypsy-roma-and-traveller-communities

www.gypsy-traveller.org/pledge-card-asking-your-mp-to-sign-up/

Obviously, you don't have to make an appointment with your MP as suggested, you could email or post.

Thank you MNHQ, I'm sorry didn't realise it would come under petitions.

Really Pinky? I'm disgusting because I've been physically threatened? Because I've been robbed? Because where I worked a vehicle has been stolen repeatedly and taken to a traveller site and money has had to be paid to release it? That the police knew it was there but we're too afraid to remove it?

No hang on maybe I'm disgusting because the property next door to a property I'm involved in is in such a state of disrepair that it is damaging the first property but the council won't do anything about it because they've admitted its owned by the travelling community and so they are powerless.

Perhaps the time property was stolen and the face of the perpetrator and license plate of the transit van were caught on CCTV and the police admitted it was travellers and that is why they couldn't pursue it any further.

Oh hang on what about a friend's child's sports day being cancelled because the site had been illegally occupied by travellers and they refused to leave the field where the event would take place?

No wait a minute I must be disgusting because when a traveller family were given permanent accommodation by the council in the house next door to a group of all female friends they were spat upon and told they would be burnt in their beds? Despite having never uttered a word to the family who moved in? The female friends owned the house but moved out and left it empty in terror and ended up paying the mortgage and to rent somewhere they felt safer. Guess they were racist too?

I must be disgusting because a travelling community occupied the car park of a my child's school and when removed caused chaos by tipping the contents of their chemical toilets onto the tarmac which ran into the nearby river?

Those are personal experiences and I know of a lot of people with a lot of experiences very very similar to these. It doesn't make them racists, it makes them victims and victims deserve to have their voices heard just like anyone else does. How dare you call me disgusting for having suffered at the hands of people who are travellers? It took me months and months to recover from one experience that left me too afraid to leave the house for days. You ought to be ashamed. How dare you minimise the pain and upset I and the people I know have been through by dismissing our concerns and calling us rascists? You're as bad as the people who blame rape victims based on what they've drunk or what they've worn.

Using the racism card to silence legitimate concern will only lead to more resentment from people who've been through this type of thing. The travelling community need to do a lot more work to weed out the criminal elements amongst them and to make sure they publicly denounce them. At the moment I don't see that happening at all. I don't see efforts from the travelling community to work alongside static communities to integrate. I don't think filling in a card to an MP goes anywhere close to solving the issue.

@steff13 many ethnic groups can be identified by their looks, it’s hardly unusual. Celts, Pakistanis, Germans- off the top of my head all have features that mean you could have a good guess. Because there isn’t much mixing of races / backgrounds in traveller communities there's certainly a common look, as well as behaviour/ accent which means you can easily make a good guess. Personally I have no issue identifying travellers.

I wouldn't be able to identify a Celt or German by sight, either.

Here's a little bit of reading, I have tons more.

Yes, Travellers both Romany and irish are considered a race ito racism
It's anti Gypsyism.

Pinkyy, nice to see you, my love. Have some new links for you and will pm.
www.coe.int/en/web/roma-and-travellers/anti-gypsyism-/-discrimination

Well probably not, if you don’t live in Europe, i guess it’s all an irrelevance to you. So just trust me, Its easy enough

What other race could you refer to as "They do this, or that"

navi

You sound lovely, naivety is fine. Nobody is expected to fully understand but to learn the actual facts.
I'm quite dark, olive skinned but not mixed race. My family are Romany and have lived here for centuries, we are all British.
Yet we get shouts of get back where you came from, threats to burn our vans, and downright hostility.

I will carry on posting through this thread and if it better informs just a few it's a start.
I'm glad you have some well behaved travellers, I know that some can be terrible, just like in the gorger (non travelling) society.
The problems come with the "They do this" as though we all behave badly.

@Drabarni - that link does seem quite exclusively about Roma even though it says Roma and Travellers. Are the campaigns including both?

Can I go off topic a bit?
Didn't they find the Roma Gypsies have one of the strongest genetic purities?
Like a tribe that hadn't reached civilisation yet, undiluted almost?

I can't remember where I read/ saw it but I was struck that a race that almost exclusively travelled had kept it's genetic identity so well.

Thank you Surrey, it's a shame it's the first, though.

childrenshealthsurrey.nhs.uk/news/first-ever-gypsy-roma-and-traveller-health-outreach-programme-successfully-launched-across-surrey?fbclid=IwAR0JGQlZmLGEON5Gf0HqM0cAVm2AQ5ZrxpoBkMn7t6aoI6kNvpyYSNMh4qg

Access to schools and health services really needs to be improved to be inclusive of travellers.

Salt

Yes, it includes Roma, Romany, Irish travellers.
We are all the same, just have some differences in our culture.

@Drabarni I think you are doing a great job keeping your calm here! Best of luck to you and yours x

I am going to sign out now as I have done zero work today and have been on here way too long:-)

TheQueef

I can only speak of those I know but Romany until say my ds2 generation he's 24 have a very unique DNA.

Mine starts in Pakistan and ends in Wales/England.
My DNA plots almost exactly the migration from India over 1500 years ago.
The older members of the family still follow the Caste system of India, my dsis had an arranged marriage.
I ran as fast as I could I love my roots and appreciate the culture even though some of it isn't for me.

We are exceptionally clean, most things inc carpets and upholstery cleaned daily.

@Drabarni

Can I ask you, what is the politest way to refer? I always use the term gypsy but I’ve read elsewhere that’s offensive. Is it really?

Am I supposed to use the term traveller or Roma?

Here's another. I make no apology for informing and thanks to those who would like to read.

www.gypsy-traveller.org/news/new-equality-report-planning-polices-found-to-be-inadequate-in-addressing-the-accommodation-needs-of-gypsies-and-travellers/

There are further resources on here.

Lucy, it's complex.

Some don't like the term Gypsy whichever group they are from.
Others don't mind it.
many years ago it was thought offensive as the first to enter the UK from Eastern or Western Europe were said to have come from "Little Egypt" and of course this isn't correct, just how the remunerator listed them.
I don't mind either Gypsy or Romany or Romany Gypsy.

Unless any of you have been refused entry into a soft play with your children (who are extremely well behaved) purely based on your ethnicity, you have no idea of how it feels. And the simple fact is that we are helpless in that situation, they have the right to refuse us, but they can't do it to any other ethnic minority. That's just one example of what's happened to me, there are countless more.

Add me to the list of people who can't identify travellers.

I'm off for a bit, to see family but will return later.

Is it still seen as a bad thing if a traveller married a non traveller?

Thank you for being gracious @Drabarni my DH has very distant Romany ancestry but I’m ashamed to admit I never really thought of actively researching that ancestry or how modern society will still generalise the entire culture to being as bad as their worst examples (usually thanks to the media always jumping on stories of those who do act poorly).

It is in no way the same, but I see a very similar negative generalisation of people who live in social housing/council housing as being benefit scroungers, workshy, yobbish etc. I’m in social housing and have lost count of the number of instances where I’ve seen an immediate shift in a person’s attitude towards me when it comes up in conversation, but there are no negative outcomes of trying to gain admittance to anywhere so I can’t imagine how awful it is to be treated in such a way

I have signed and I hope that it leads to a positive outcome

Thank you NaviSprite

There is a closed fb group that specifically looks at DNA, we are all linked on Gedmatch and swop lots of details.
Anyone with Romany/ Gypsy/fairground/traveller can join if they are happy to answer few questions.
It states that anyone questioning a person's right to post will be removed. You would be most welcome behaving as you have done.
The DNA and linguistic research is very interesting, studies have been ongoing for years.

I too can not identify Germans, celts or travellers just by glancing at them. I’m amazed other people are so tuned in to the nuances of other people’s faces.

Oh, marriage.

Some stick to the old marrying first cousins, (not very many), some arranged marriage with a well known family.
But like many cultures it has become diluted over the years.
My family are very traditional and still observe most practices, but this wasn't for me, I married a non traveller.
I'm not treated any different for having done this, but some traditionalists would have you vilified and ousted.
Just going back 50/100 years it would be practically unheard of.

Here's one that explains why Romany and Irish Travellers are considered a race.
www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/protected-characteristics/gypsies-and-travellers-race-discrimination/

The language used towards travellers is disgusting and surprisingly socially acceptable. The very real issues of accessing services needs addressing.

My friend is a traveller but there is no way you would know by her appearance so I find that a bit weird to say people 'look' in a certain way. Her accent is the same as everyone who lives round here - I genuinely didn't realise there was a certain way of speaking?

The clean up operation following a group that was here a few years ago ran into tens of thousands but it is a shame to think people think that they represent everyone.

My understanding was that Romanies were completely different to the Irish travellers that lots of people talk about re. causing trouble and stealing. Limping lots of people together because they are travelling people is unhelpful.