Should white south africans be allowed to return to europe?

[lastuseraccount123]

www.change.org/p/european-commission-allow-all-white-south-africans-the-right-to-return-to-europe

so because you're not aware of it, it doesn't exist?

Why should they get any priority to return to Europe ahead of any other asylum seekers. In fact they should get less. Because they chose to go their or at least their forefathers did.
It would be totally unfair, though, to blame people now for the sins of their forebears. IF genocide seemed likely, then white South Africans should get the same priority as any other asylum seekers, not less.

genocidewatch.net/2014/12/05/genocide-watchs-dr-gregory-h-stanton-press-release-from-south-africa/

lumela i guess it's figuring out at what stage of genocide they should start getting asylum. I don't know how it works with asylum policies or whether they take stages of genocide into account.

aaaa

Press Release

5 December 2014

For immediate release

Contact:

Dr. Greg Stanton of Genocide Watch Warns of Crime in South Africa

At a press conference at the Transvaal Agricultural Union today, Dr. Gregory Stanton, Founding President of Genocide Watch, warned that early warnings of genocide are still deep in South African society, though genocide has not begun.

---

Genocide Watch was the first international human rights organization to protest the murders and hate crimes committed against farmers in South Africa. Since his research trip in July 2012, Dr. Stanton said that hate crimes against Afrikaner farmers have not declined. The murder rate of the whole South African population remains at over 31 per 100,000. The murder rate of farmers, including Afrikaner farmers, is four times as high. The Institute of Security Studies estimated the farm murder rate at 120 per 100,000 in 2013, and the Transvaal Agricultural Union, using verified names of victims, placed the figure at 130 per 100,000 in 2013, one of the highest murder rates in the world.

march - you took the words right out of my mouth. XXX

*colonisation happened 400 years ago.

Of course it wasn't right, but it seems odd to me to blame people for something their ancestors did.*

So reparations shouldn't be paid to slave families?
That Nazi's shouldn't be tried for their crimes?
People shouldn't be held accountable for there actions?

. They say that the birth place for humanity is Africa -some xxxx years ago - does that mean that I can "return" to Africa "just 'cause".

Your logic is flawed. I'm not saying that SA doesn't have problems but to really think that a specific race can just chop and change locations because of some imagined " birthright" is just silly.

so because you're not aware of it, it doesn't exist?

Well, upthread we have a white South African saying it's 'bullshit' to call the situation genocide. I have a white S African friend who lives in Cape Town and she seems totally unfazed by the situation.

Nobody in their right mind would ever say that genocide could never happen to X people in Z country, and SA is a violent place, but I don't think it's imminent there now.

They are quite enough racists in this country, I don't relish dealing with an intake of Afrikaners who regard me as a lower form of life, thanks.

There is no reason for them to leave SA, this is just whites not taking to being a minority without the aid of the military on their side. How they must miss apartheid!

As do quite a few others.

prorsum so all white south africans are racists?

lumela are your friends farmers?

I don't think it's that unusual for people to be in denial about what's going on around them.

prorsum so gregory stanton's work on genocide isn't to be taken seriously, as far as you're concerned, when it comes to white south africans? Are you a genocide researcher?

fwiw, i had a discussion with a white SA friend about his life over there. He was complaining about the violence, and the fear, and how hard things were, and then I pointed him to genocide watch and he immediately backtracked and said it wasn't that bad.

so, y'know. denial. people do that.

Perhaps we should take in the refugees at Calais first. Their need seems more immediate.

There are a lot of people in mortal danger at this time across the world. It's a fucking travesty. I'm not sure what are so special or urgent about white south africans that we should be opening our borders to them above Syrians, for example, when the latter seem to be in a lot more peril than the former at this time.

limited thank you for this post by you. You get it.

Thanks OP.

Not entirely sure we're on the same wavelength, though.

I do think all asylum applications should be considered regardless of creed or colour.

Applications from white South Africans should be considered in the same way as people of all races from all parts of the world.

Sadly that means most if not all of them will fail.

I do not believe there is a genocide against poor white people in South Africa as a group but there may be a case for individuals.

That's the only reason I argued against some people on this thread.

doublebubble

I"m not really sure what you're getting at. So white south africans should be made to suffer because of what their ancestors did? Are you another member of the "white south africans are getting what they deserve" camp?

I thought the truth & reconciliation process SA went through was part of their reparations?

Handing over their political power?

I don't understand holding people now accountable for what their ancestors did. Are you sure you want to go down that road? Because there's plenty of things English people did that they could be held accountable for:

slave trade - where are the reparations to the slaves from the UK?
highland clearnaces - where are the reparations to the scots who were thrown off their land?
colonisation: where are the reparations to the Native Americans, Maori, aborigines, Indians, Pakistanis, etc.

Go on then. I'm sure you'll be more than happy to cough up for something that happened years before you were born.

so, all of you think Gregory stanton is wrong.

Interesting.

Oh, okay.
If someone says it's bad, but not that bad, then they're in denial? I'm not saying denial doesn't exist.

And no, my friend isn't a farmer. As I said, she lives in Cape Town. But she's not stupid.

Why are you focusing on white South Africans and not any other people at the same level of 'risk' of genocide?

limited of course. But what bothers me is the number of people who would flat out ignore the stage of genocide because it's about white south africans. That is bigotry, nothing more.

lumela denial has nothing to do with intelligence.

jassy because I had a theory that because the group in question is white south africans, the other wise quite caring populace of MN would not be interested because of how they are percieved. And i was right.

Well I haven't met them all but I would say most of them are. Apartheid was only yesterday in historical terms and yet here you are making the case for them to allowed back to Europe because they're not in charge anymore. They did not free Mandela and allow democratic elections because they suddenly saw the error of their ways; they were forced by economic sanctions and being the pariah of the western world.

Genocide? It was only because they were so many more blacks than whites, the Afrikaners were not able to erase blacks entirely.

waffly is spot on. The people in Calais are right on are doorstep in desperate conditions. And after them I can think of a few other places.

OP, I'm not a genocide scholar. But SA doesn't seem to match Stanton's own criteria for stage 6 - and yes, I do follow the news.

When it comes to asylum, I'm more concerned about, for example, Syrian Christians, who are having a much worse time than SA whites.

lumela actually i think bad but not that bad is probably fair. We're not talking stages 8 & 9 of genocide here we're only at 6. So your friend is right.

jassy because I had a theory that because the group in question is white south africans, the other wise quite caring populace of MN would not be interested because of how they are percieved. And i was right.

I don't think that carries, sorry. You linked to a petition that suggests white people should get asylum priority given the colour of their skin and ethnic origins.

Which is pretty awful.

Get over yourself, this is a thread with 122 messages so is hardly a representative of MN.