Should white south africans be allowed to return to europe?

[lastuseraccount123]

www.change.org/p/european-commission-allow-all-white-south-africans-the-right-to-return-to-europe

[lastuseraccount123]

see, I have suspected for a while that on a deep down, primal level, that people think white South Africans are getting what they deserve. Am I wrong?

[lastuseraccount123]

Itsall there's two genocide watch websites - the new one and the old one. maybe that's the difference.

[MarchLikeAnAnt]

The effects of apartheid are still being felt today in SA.

What about the coloured population? Should they get be granted asylum on the basis the have some white ancestors?

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27252307

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

time.com/3931773/how-a-right-wing-south-african-group-incites-a-new-wave-of-white-fear/

[lastuseraccount123]

marchlike maybe they should.

and I agree the effects of apartheid are still there.

BUT

does that excuse possible genocide? or just because we don't like the people and the culture - maybe because they remind us how utterly shit white people have been during 400 years of hegemony and we don't like that - should they be persecuted so we'll feel better or something?

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

beta.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/western-cape/brazilian-s-bid-to-save-sa-whites-1.1863191

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Oops posted to soon (dodgy tablet

From above link:

"And in an interesting twist, the man spearheading the campaign has no roots in South Africa. Rodrigo Herhaus de Campos, lives in Joinville, the largest city in Santa Catarina State in Brazil.

When approached by the Cape Argus on social media, the network engineer and coder was initially hesitant to speak.

However, when asked why he had chosen to help South African whites he said: “I just thought I could help white South Africans avoid total ethnic cleansing and the right to return (to Europe) could be a way to solve this issue.

“I’m against the actual racist laws in SA,” referring primarily to equal employment hiring practices, “that provide special state privileges to blacks in detriment to white people”.

His views are outlined on his petition page, where he begins with a foreboding message that South African whites currently face “ethnic cleansing and persecutions at the hands of the ANC government, Economic Freedom Fighters, and various individual anti-white aggressors”.

To support this, he claims that over 4 000 white farmers have been brutally murdered since 1994. It’s a similar statistic to one repeated by Afrikaans musician Steve Hofmeyr during his protests against the “oppression” and “slaughter” of white people in 2013.

But these statistics were later debunked by Africacheck after the website consulted with the Institute of Security Studies and police crime statistics to dissect Hofmeyr’s claims. The report found that white people only represented 1.8 percent of murder victims and there were nowhere near to 4 000 farm murder victims in that period. The report also concluded that white people were far less likely to be murdered than any other race."

[CloserToFiftyThanTwenty]

Well, the UK does have an existing visa route for those commonwealth citizens with UK ancestry, who in the majority of cases are white.

[lastuseraccount123]

genocidewatch.net/2015/06/04/second-un-rapporteur-visit-to-south-africa-called-off/

genocidewatch.net/2015/06/01/south-africa-update-xenophobia-and-the-media/

[lastuseraccount123]

genocidewatch.net/2015/06/01/south-africa-update-malema-warns-white-farmers/

orkers will turn against you, Malema warns white farmers

News24

23 April 2015



Image: Julius Malema addresses farmers and other business people in Paarl. (Lauren Hess, News24)

Speaking to News24, EFF leader Julius Malema said the priority for Limpopo and the North West (where the EFF will serve as official opposition) is the expropriation of land without compensation.



Cape Town – Workers will turn against farmers if they did not give them some land, EFF leader Julius Malema warned a group of farmers in the Western Cape on Wednesday evening.

[lastuseraccount123]

true story Closer

[MarchLikeAnAnt]

White south Africans are not facing genocide.

[lastuseraccount123]

I'm just going to say this: how reliable are statistics from SA when they won't even let UN workers come and confirm the situation in SA?

[lastuseraccount123]

March yet.

Stage 6.

[lastuseraccount123]

but, your comment is a typical example of denial.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Your first link, the person was going to investigate violence against women (esp domestic violence and sexual violence). Skin colour not mentioned.

Your second link is all about the stabbing of a black person from Mozambique.

No-one is denying that SA is a pretty scary country with massive levels of violence. However the vast majority of the violence is not against white people. According to AfricaWatch 1.8% of murder victims are white. africacheck.org/reports/are-white-afrikaners-really-being-killed-like-flies/
“Whites are far less likely to be murdered than their black or coloured counterparts,” Lizette Lancaster, who manages the Institute for Security Studies crime and justice hub, told Africa Check. This is supported by an analysis of a national sample of 1378 murder dockets conducted by police in 2009. In 86.9% of the cases, the victims were Africans. Whites accounted for 1.8% of the cases (although whites make up 8.85% of the population).

[MerryMarigold]

There are many sad cases of people being persecuted, and even genocide. It is not denying genocide (I really have no idea of what stage SA is at), but denying that they have an instant right to come to Europe. Why should White South Africans instantly be allowed in, but not say, Syrians or Iraqis or Egyptians or who knows who else...the world is a sad place. I think it says a lot about White South Africans that they have this expectation.

[lastuseraccount123]

absolutely, but it does show the level of risk in the country.

what genocidewatch is also highlighting, however, is the political shifts going on that are targetting white south africans. Stage 6 is:

1. POLARIZATION: Extremists drive the groups apart. Hate groups broadcast polarizing propaganda. Laws may forbid intermarriage or social interaction. Extremist terrorism targets moderates, intimidating and silencing the center. Moderates from the perpetrators’ own group are most able to stop genocide, so are the first to be arrested and killed. Leaders in targeted groups are the next to be arrested and murdered. The dominant group passes emergency laws or decrees that grants them total power over the targeted group. The laws erode fundamental civil rights and liberties. Targeted groups are disarmed to make them incapable of self-defense, and to ensure that the dominant group has total control. Prevention may mean security protection for moderate leaders or assistance to human rights groups. Assets of extremists may be seized, and visas for international travel denied to them. Coups d’état by extremists should be opposed by international sanctions. Vigorous objections should be raised to disarmament of opposition groups. If necessary they should be armed to defend themselves.
   

*

FWIW I've been watching for a while and SA was at stage 5 recently, so this is another step closer.

[lastuseraccount123]

Merry yep I think that's fair. I just thought the argument vis a vis the Israeli right of return was an interesting one, though also very weak obviously.

[lastuseraccount123]

but it's all aren't you concerned they won't even let her in?

what are they trying to hide?

isn't anyone curious?

[lastuseraccount123]

copied:
Rashida Manjoo

Second UN rapporteur visit to SA called off

News 24

11 May 2015



Image: United Nations Special Rapporteur Rashida Manjoo addresses journalists in central London. (Carl Court, AFP)

Johannesburg – The United Nations’ special rapporteur on violence against women on Monday cancelled an official visit to South Africa saying the government delayed and ignored requests.

Rashida Manjoo has been trying to set up a visit to the country since 2012, her office said in a statement. Manjoo was finally able to secure a formal invitation for a visit earlier this year, but President Jacob Zuma’s government then postponed her trip and failed to confirm a new schedule, despite repeated requests, said the statement.

Manjoo is a South African national who has worked at the country’s Commission on Gender Equality. In her capacity as special rapporteur, she was meant to lead a fact-finding mission to investigate violence against women in South Africa, which has high rates of domestic violence and sexual assault.

The special rapporteur would have met with survivors, civil society groups as well as government officials, her spokesperson, Nathalie Stadelmann, said. Manjoo ends her second three-year term as special rapporteur at the end of July, and she said she hoped her replacement would continue discussions with South Africa.

Manjoo’s predecessor, Yakin Erturk, also failed to secure a visit to the country, said Stadelmann.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

But the problems in South Africa are caused by both the black and the white members of the population.
The white members of the population are at less risk than the black.

"Jooste is lecturing in the mess hall. “Who is my enemy in South Africa? Who murders, robs and rapes?” His cadets sit cross-legged on the ground. “Who are these creatures?” he asks. “The blacks.” He goes on to tell the boys that black people have a smaller cerebral cortex than whites, and thus cannot take initiative or govern effectively.

Jooste boasts that it will take him just an hour to change the boys’ minds. “Then they’ll know they aren’t part of the rainbow nation, but part of another nation with an important history.” He picks up the South African flag, which was adopted in 1994, and lays it before the entrance to the mess hall like a doormat. He orders the boys to wipe their filthy army boots on it. They laugh uncertainly, then they do as they are told. Jooste tells them that they should love the old South African flag and the old national anthem"
time.com/3931773/how-a-right-wing-south-african-group-incites-a-new-wave-of-white-fear/

It is also with noting that "Genocide Watch" is the product and the views of one person. It is not some internationally recognised programme.

I'm not saying you are wrong lastuser , its just when this sort of petition pops up it is worth looking closely into the background, and the facts.

[MarchLikeAnAnt]

If they really fear for their lives they could easily move to Zambia, Mozambique, Malawi etc. There are numerous safe countries for them in Africa.

[Theknacktoflying]

the real question is why would a South African white person want to live in Europe .... Besides a reliable supply of electricity, gas, fuel and an accountable government that doesn't spend £££££ on themselves and their homesteads...

Most of the South Africans who have left the shores are economic migrants ... The truer figures ro look at are levels of unemployment