Another Christmas ruined by adult child

[Saltandvinegarsausage]

Come to stay for a week. Always been a difficult, aggressive argumentative person but completely invested in the narrative that he is a good, kind, positive person and we are all horrible and critical and if he does behave in an unpleasant way in front of us it’s because me DH and his younger brother and sister are so annoying. He’s 21 and younger ones are 15 and 13 and although they adore him and look forward to seeing him they are also scared of him and so am I tbh.

Usual behaviours, which we have had this week, are -

Demanding everyone play a game then showing no patience and shouting and eventually storming off when he took offence at younger sister. Similar behaviour watching film. Commandeers living room and will only allow what he wants on TV and storms off if suggested we might not want to watch some weird space drama from 1990. Everyone left feeling upset and deeply unfestive!

Absolutely impossible to reason with him. Says we all make him behave in a certain way ie angry and impatient as we are all so annoying. Has refused to leave room all day and spoken to girlfriend who said he is the loveliest kindest person and does not recognise the person we say he is.

I just don’t know what to do. He has always been an angry bully tbh. He has no friends and is so negative about everyone and us always in the midst of some kind of conflict with someone ie at work, Uni but absolutely believes that he is put upon and victimised by the world and that he can do no wrong.

How do you get someone like that to improve their behaviour? Feels like my choice is to let him keep ruining Xmas or tell him not to come next year which will ruin Xmas in a different way and tbh probably end our relationship which I don’t want, I’m his mum.

Feeling so depressed.

Because they have experience and recognise the signs?

Dear gods and little fishes, there’s nothing like a whole bundle of armchair diagnosticians to make a windy Wednesday afternoon fly by. I couldn’t make a dx from this history and tbh labels probably aren’t very helpful here anyway. What’s helpful is to have a think about how to manage how you cope with his behaviour; what your boundaries are and how you make it as safe as possible for everyone.

you could suggest he might have more “fun” with friends next Christmas (& he might!) but I’d re-enforce it with a message of love too. Feeling he’s being rejected by his parents is likely to be really hurtful, which isn’t what you’re aiming for…

if he wants to stay with you, think about how he can have some safe space to watch what he fancies; you don’t all have to sit together, that’s just fine. Just he can’t take up the sitting room! If he wants to stay in his room, no problem, but maybe the rule is he has one family meal together each day and contributes positively towards it (in attitude as well as helping). Reduce all demands but place clear boundaries on what you expect from him in terms of behaviour. And then tell him how much you appreciate him when he does comply. You’re aiming for calm that you can both enjoy, not drama & definitely not inflaming things. Has to be by mutual effort, even tho that’s a real challenge. I really hope you both find a way to deal with it

People are obsessed with labels.

people love to hold forth don’t they about neurodiversity being over diagnosed! well it’s only in the last 20 years we have started to understand the brain better. Frankly, having a child with autism/ ADHD / PDA is no fun at all for most of us and we do get to understand a lot of the triggers and behaviours very well.

Yes I think autism too. My DD in her 20’s has high functioning autism and can just about hold it together at work but always has a melt down when she is at home.
She has a completely rigid view of how Christmas should be and any deviation however small has her screaming and shouting.
She simply cannot comprehend that someone else might have a different view.

Ok, sometimes folks forget that the brain doesn’t finish its main development till 23/24 years of age. The last neurological surge post puberty includes development of impulse control.
thats why we live with effect of younger drivers doing reckless things, knife crime in youth gangs, drugs etc.
before you jump into self diagnosis of neurodivergence, take a look at this first.
I found my ds’s took a long time to become normal adulting human beings. Doing some pretty stupid uninhibited stuff including occasional rudeness. I remember feeling bloody relieved when eldest, especially, went back to uni at start of each term.
but he’s 30 now: he’s just normal, is good adult company . He can disagree with me, my ways in a light hearted tease or wind up, make his point diplomatically without loosing his shit or having sulks

yep, don’t ignore, continue to put boundaries out there. Don’t be afraid ,Mir he breaks boundaries to ask him to leave early. But don’t jump to diagnosis without looking at what range normal is at that age .

Sounds exactly like one of my brothers - PDA autistic
PP on this thread saying it can’t be autism or “not everything is autism” could do with reading up on PDA.

he’s home this Christmas for the first time in years and it’s been difficult.

OP have a Google for the PDA Society- I’ve found it’s quite useful.

It's time for some serious boundary setting - not just for yourself, but for your two younger children who right now are being taught that they should let people treat them this way.

Do some reading on boundaries or (if possible) see a counselor who can help guide you through it. The goal isn't to convince him that his behavior is wrong, it's to make it clear what behavior you will and won't accept in your home and around your younger children. Explain concisely why you are not ok with a given behavior, but don't open it for debate or negotiation. He can choose whether to come stay with you on those terms or not - make it clear you would prefer the former, but those are the only two options.

I understand that the idea of him saying "fine, I won't come" is incredibly painful. But you're not doing anyone (including him) any favors by allowing him to continue this.

https://www.brainfacts.org/thinking-sensing-and-behaving/aging/2018/when-the-brain-starts-adulting-112018

Why is everything labelled as autism? I’m sorry but you can’t just blame arsehole behaviour on autism - he’s a grown man ffs he knows exactly what he’s doing!

Tough love, op.

You have one year to straighten him out. Ask him to leave every single time he is rude or shouts. Quite apart from being a good example to your other children.

You tell him directly he is not welcome to cross the family threshold unless he can guarantee respectful behaviour. You have to follow through - embrace it thoroughly because you are saving him a lifetime of misery. A life time of broken relationships. Regardless of what might be ‘wrong’ with him, he has to learn!!

You can assess your progress in the autumn - if you are still in this position I would book a Christmas break or visit others and organise a separate Christmas gathering separately with him, with the same conditions he leaves wihen he behaves badly. At least that way he won’t wreck your children’s Christmas.

I worked with a child with PDA. You have let them feel that they are in control.
EG: Speak to him in situations by saying- “what do you think “

What was he like at school? Maybe he has been overlooked if has been displaying this attitude and behaviour.

You need to let him realise it is draining you.
Tell him how much you love him but this cannot carry on!

It’s not fair on you and your family.

I wondered Red Dwarf.

But seriously he sounds awful. And cutting you off previously just because you didn’t agree with him is over the top, bullying behaviour. He surely doesn’t treat his gf like this which means he can control it.

it doesn’t sound like he listens when you try and talk so id send a lengthy email telling him things have to change and his behaviour won’t be tolerated. But prepare to be cut off for some time as he won’t be happy. Family counselling sounds good but is it practical if he’s away at uni? Where would he go if he did flounce off? Is his girlfriend independent or does she live at home? Her parents may not want him.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/brainwaves/the-neuroscience-of-twenty-somethings/

For those people who think it is autism, what practical strategies do you suggest? And is it not possible he is autistic and also an arse?

You could suggest that he doesn’t get to go back to your home for more than a few hours or dinner until he engages with mental health services properly.

You can understand the reason but you don’t have to put up with the behaviour.

Sounds like my brother. If he wasn't my brother he wouldn't be someone I'd bother with, but he is and a lot of the time I feel like I have no choice but to tolerate him.

Our mam would feel guilty about him spoiling things for me and my sister when we were all younger, like she should have been able to control him. Unfortunately people don't work like that. We lost my mam recently and he even managed to cause a scene then while denying any wrongdoing.

Unfortunately I don't have any answers but I do hope you never see his behaviour as something you could control. Only he can do that.

For the sake of your young children growing up in fear you need to put in some serious boundaries and fast. If his girlfriend indeed exists and thinks he’s a wonderful person then clearly he’s capable of turning this behaviour on and off. This is dangerous for all of you. You need to make him leave and make it very clear if he wants to behave like this he will have no home to come back to from uni. It’s his choice. There’s absolutely no way a grown adult regardless of who they are would be terrorising myself and my children. He behaves that way because you enable him and allow it. Only you can change it. Find your backbone and advocate for the safety of your children, they deserve better. No doubt you do as well. He needs to learn in life that being abusive gets him nowhere in life and neither will manipulating you and ruling through fear. Stamp this shit out now before it gets worse and turns physical. Call the police where necessary. You need to finally teach him what you should have instilled in him years ago - bad actions have very real and serious consequences.

He may be autistic, or not, but if he is high functioning and he can keep his behaviour under control elsewhere, it is only fair for the family not to be used as a punching bag either.

If he needs to let steam off, fine, he needs to find healthy way to let it out without abusing his siblings and parents. He is not a child anymore.

Compassion and acceptance comes both ways. We have from severe autism, ADHD and LD running rife in the family. We cut ourselves some slack to go around our quirks and difficulties, but abusing other people because we are ND has never been tolerated.

Why should she ‘let him feel that he’s in control’? I’m sick of this bullying behaviour toward mothers, and society’s expectation that they should devote their entire lives to placating their aggressive and entitled adult children. Op’s done her bit, she’s raised and fed and clothed her son for 18 years, now it’s on him to be the kind of person she wants to invite to Christmas.

This dynamic is no different to any other male intimidation toward females.

Absolutely this - it will be all about the way you frame it. This is the way you need to talk to him about next Easter/Christmas/family occasion he is likely to ruin.

This. Nothing suggests autism here . He has narcissistic personality disorder .

He can’t be allowed to stay again.

Change his room into a study or store room, get rid of his bed.

You realise you have just labelled him as well, right?