Another Christmas ruined by adult child

[Saltandvinegarsausage]

Come to stay for a week. Always been a difficult, aggressive argumentative person but completely invested in the narrative that he is a good, kind, positive person and we are all horrible and critical and if he does behave in an unpleasant way in front of us it’s because me DH and his younger brother and sister are so annoying. He’s 21 and younger ones are 15 and 13 and although they adore him and look forward to seeing him they are also scared of him and so am I tbh.

Usual behaviours, which we have had this week, are -

Demanding everyone play a game then showing no patience and shouting and eventually storming off when he took offence at younger sister. Similar behaviour watching film. Commandeers living room and will only allow what he wants on TV and storms off if suggested we might not want to watch some weird space drama from 1990. Everyone left feeling upset and deeply unfestive!

Absolutely impossible to reason with him. Says we all make him behave in a certain way ie angry and impatient as we are all so annoying. Has refused to leave room all day and spoken to girlfriend who said he is the loveliest kindest person and does not recognise the person we say he is.

I just don’t know what to do. He has always been an angry bully tbh. He has no friends and is so negative about everyone and us always in the midst of some kind of conflict with someone ie at work, Uni but absolutely believes that he is put upon and victimised by the world and that he can do no wrong.

How do you get someone like that to improve their behaviour? Feels like my choice is to let him keep ruining Xmas or tell him not to come next year which will ruin Xmas in a different way and tbh probably end our relationship which I don’t want, I’m his mum.

Feeling so depressed.

Why does everyone automatically assume autism when it comes to abusive behaviour...because that's what this is.
He sounds narcissistic. I know people don't like that term but his mental health sounds down the drain. Surely ASD would've been picked up sooner...if not by his parents, by other professionals?

Stargate or Firefly? misses the point entirely...

I was wondering the exact same thing!

Hi there. I'm sorry your going through this. If he seriously doesnt think there is anything the matter then replicate his behaviour one day and see how he likes it. Dont argue with him about it just continue the day like him! (Last resort )

Also, I was undiagnosed for 12 months after having my baby with graves disease. Apparently I had post natal depression symptoms but ontop of that I had many outbursts, irrational responses, and my body had physical symptoms such as wide eyes (nobody mentioned or noticed as it was gradual) shakey hands, sweats sometimes, aches etc etc etc... a simple blood test of everything may show up something! Tell him to do that or he is not invited anymore. Tough love, why should everyone suffer his abuse.

I'd tell him that he needn't come next year as he obviously doesn't enjoy Christmas with you. Don't tell him not to come - he will play the victim.
Say you notice how unhappy being with the family makes him and you don't want him to feel that way.
Make out you want the best for him and you think he'd be happier with his girlfriend/friends (even though you know he has none). Tell him not to worry about you/siblings/DH, you'll muddle along without him content in the knowledge he'll be having a fab time with GF and friends.

My first thought was that he might be on drugs of some kind, or have taken them in the past. A former colleague of mine sounds exactly the same, and it turned out that he was abusing alcohol and drugs. Many drugs can bring about permanent behaviour changes. But if he has been the same since childhood then it is more likely to be a MH issue.

You are describing my sister, who was totally enabled by my parents. I had a whole childhood of this, and then walked straight into a marriage with another one, and enabled him for 25 years until the truth nearly destroyed me.

I don't care if it is autism or narcissism, what it amounts to is pure abusive behaviour. Terrifying everyone by threatening to kick off. My mother has spent over 50 years terrified of my sister kicking off. I spent 25 years of marriage terrified of my ex kicking off.

They'll never change, they're so fragile and lacking in self esteem, they can't accept they could possibly be at fault. Ever.

All you can do it take control, limit the time you spend with them, and accept that you can't fix them.

MN is like a parallel universe at times, where all awful behaviour is labelled as ND is some way shape or form and excused.

OP, you may be his Mum but this doesn't mean you have to tolerate his behaviour. This is your home, your safe space and he's treating it and you with absolutely no respect. I would be making it very clear that if he comes again, and he starts exhibiting this behaviour, he will be asked to leave. To a degree, you're all just enabling it and that really isn't helping anyone let alone him.

I think shorter visits are the answer.

I have a brother who sounds like this and I can just about cope with having him here 12-4 on Christmas day.

I used to be a bit of a twat as a teen/ young adult. I was a fucking delight with friends and at work- life and sole of the party, but home just made me feel stifled and frustrated and I would lash out or just fuck off to the pub.

It could be Narcassism or he's ND but either way he's putting on a front for his GF but his real self comes out when he comes to see his family, he knows his GF can stop seeing him if he's awful to her to so he's lovely, but he thinks you'll put up with him regardless so he can be as unpleasant and demanding as he likes.
I wonder if he knew his behaviour was different and that's why he wouldn't engage with the therapist, that he didn't want to be diagnosed and labelled?

Unfortunately, now he's an adult you can't force him to see a doctor or therapist, all you can do is manage the situation to protect yourself and your other DC. It's not fair to your younger DC to let their Christmas be ruined, they love their older DB but regardless of the reason for his behaviour they shouldn't have to come second to his needs every year

DH Father was like this, very rigid he was obnoxious and people didn’t like him. He made my MIL mentally ill with anxiety that remains after they divorced 30 years ago and even after his death. He was just best avoided I know he is your DS and you will always love him but you have children you have to consider.

Personality disorder rather than autism. My ex SIL was like this, ruined every Christmas storming off, constantly fell out with everyone incl. her family, it escalated until she physically attacked someone in a row and got a suspended prison sentence. He needs counselling, perhaps meds to calm him, you cannot go on like this.

Your younger kids are so
much younger than your eldest, could you make plans next year to take them away for Christmas and leave your grown arse bully son to sort himself out?

Sounds like a family member of mine. I'm almost certain he's a sociopath. Wears thin after many years putting up with him spoiling family events and taking over. We don't invite him to anything now. You can't always change someone else's behaviour but you can change your own and how you react. Difficult when it's your own child though, I imagine.

Because what the OP is describing is typical of PDA and how some people present in their autism, that's why. You can be autistic and abusive, and you can certainly be autistic and have MH problems, they're not exactly mutually exclusive.

I was 39 years old when I suspected I was autistic. 43 when I got my diagnosis. Absolutely nobody gave any hint that they suspected it of me in childhood. I certainly wasn't assesed for it. My own mother, an SEN teacher and generally switch on attentive mother, had a very hard time understanding and accepting my diagnosis. Lots of adults in their 30s and 40s are realising they might be ND.

@LaughingCat they both had their strengths tbf, I'd rather watch either than a miserable relative.

My autism wasn't picked up until I was in my forties and I requested an assessment.

The thread subject's behaviour sounds like male entitlement to me. I've worked with many men who dislike criticism and demand to have their own way.

He sounds narcissistic rather than autistic. You have my complete sympathy because dealing with a narcissist is an absolute nightmare. Everything they say they twist back at you and you just can't win. The only real solution is to have as little contact with him as possible which is very difficult when it's your son I appreciate.

This sounds very difficult for you and the other members of the household.

He may be neurodiverse, he may not. Either way, you and others should not have to put up with this sort of behaviour in your home.

He may just be a very difficult person - some people are. My sister sounds quite similar - she just seems to have a very abrasive personality and is, frankly, just very self centered.

On a practical note - when is he due back at university? Is he able to return sooner than planned? I understand he is difficult but maybe you and your husband need to sit down with him and tell him, calmly but bluntly, that his behaviour is unacceptable in the home and cannot continue. If he cannot behave in an appropriate manner, he needs to go back to his uni accommodation.

He sounds like my nephew who is a narcissistic abusive twat. Too much cannabis, possibly adhd. He makes my sister's life an absolute misery .
Grey rock until he goes back to Uni.

Protect your other kids until he gets help. I grew up with a similar sibling and the scars remain.

I think that's really sad and seems to be an increasing reflection of behaviour amongst a lot of young(ish) people. There generally seems to be a massive lack of respect between people (within & without families) & a lack of self control or boundaries. Your son should most definitely not be behaving like that or treating any of you in that way & he needs some consequences gor his behaviour. How did you deal with him when he was younger/growing up? There just seems to be so much anger, impatience, entitlement, and a lack of proportion these days. I completely despair of society and thi k the end of civilisation is happening. The knock-on effect of such horrible behaviour of individuals is a massive burden, and potential danger, for everyone else.

I hope you can tell your son how awful he's been behaving and make it clear what the consequences are for him. He needs to grow up and take responsibility for his own behaviour. I don't expect many people like him if that's how he communicates.

Spycams in the public areas, show him the footage afterwards.

Could you access counselling for you Op? He’s an adult and you don’t have to tolerate anyone speaking to you disrespectfully in your own home.
What are his plans after uni? Maybe he will not able to come to your home due his job or travel distance.