Help!!!! Father demanding access in Australia

[looneymum]

Hello. I am distraught. I am newly divorced and my ex is soon to emmigrate to Australia. I have two DDs aged 7 and 5. Me and my ex do no communicate other than e-mail. My girls are reluctant to see their father although I have provided him with generous access. His emmigration has been on the cards for some time and particularly the DD1 has said she does not wish to visit him when he goes. I have told her that she does not have to if she doesn't want to. I have now received an e-mail from him, saying I am to expect a solicitors letter and that I am to let the children visit. He says that we should work together to make them visit him. This is the horror of a father who has left us with nominal maintenance and who refused to carry on paying for the private schooling he insisted they have prior to him leaving me. I am beside myself. I have no more money to pay for solicitors to fight this monster and only want the best for my children. If they were happy to go I would support it but should I just ignore their wishes and make them go? xxxx

Also.... I am being reasonable in that I am willing to facilitate web/phone contact when he emigrates and am happy that he has contact in the UK... and of course they can go when they are older.... it will be a massive adventure and I am all for that. xxx

I don't know anything about family law or courts but am another type of lawyer so know a little about how to make your case. Your reasons sound good but the way to make them more effective is to group into categories and then back up with examples e.g.

1. Disruption

(including Disruption to their routine and primary residence; The knock on effect to their education; They have never been away from me for longer than two weeks; DD1 has previously been upset on the phone to me when away from me in the UK. )

Their lives have already been disrupted by the divorce and change in life, while you are doing your best to provide them with consistency you are concerned that such a major change may do more harm than good. Then suggest a compromise e.g. wait until they're older, or if ex really wants this he should pay for your flight and accommodation as well so that you can be on hand and perhaps they can stay with you (is that possible with work situation?). Given he's not had too much contact with him you may be able to make an argument for how this is the best way to enable access.

2.Certainty

(Including Will ex take the time off work to spend quality time with them or will they be looked after by a third party/ his partner / his parents whilst in Aus.; Where/when is he going to Aus? What is the house like in Aus ... where will they sleep? (Point out importance of children knowing what's happening, give examples of his unreliability and constant changing of arrangements and passing them off onto relatives not seen frequently.)

3 Fairness and importance of home life

I would like to spend time with the children during the summer holidays. They may also want to see their friends go on camps, play schemes etc.

What you are trying to emphasise is that you are giving a solution in the children's best interests and can be relied upon to do so.

As said I don't have experience of family law but if you present an argument in a clear way with enough good examples hopefully the right result will come through.

Hi Tigger. Thx so much for your really helpful post. I do need to focus and will do so once the papers are received....! Do you know whether he can apply for a contact order in any court he likes? I am worried that I will not be able to find child care should I need to travel a distance that I cannot reach in school time. A great big thanks again. x

Hı Looney
Have logged on holıday to see how thıngs are goıng (excuse typos keyboard ıs not ususal querty type).

Really glad you have had some supportıve and useful responses from other mumsnetters. No offıcıal papers receıved as yet though- there ıs stıll a possıbılıty that he just tryıng to upset you. Rest assured though ıf he ıs serıous there are plenty of MNers whowıll offer you a helpıng hand.

Havıng a brıllıant holıday despıte mıssıng DS- GPs assure me he ıs just fıne.

Take care

XXXXX

Hi WMP. Your post made me howl with laughter... sorry I couldn't get much from it as it looked like you were swearing all the way through!

I hope you are enjoying your break.... you'll be back just in time to join the festive craziness. I have so far provided, presents, cakes, mince pies, cards, wine, beer, "santa" surprise, £7 for present room for school! My DDs break up at lunchtime this Friday and we are all desperate for the hols!

Talk soon.
x

Oh dear, sorry about my very wierd looking post- it looked fine when I sent it- honestly!! Goodness knows what happened- I blame the keyboard!!

Any news? Have any papers arrived yet? Hope you are having a good weekend.

Hi WMP. Hope your break was good and you have been suitable missed!

I am posting with a heavy heart. After much research, I understand that my exs chances of getting contact with the girls in 2011 are looking v likely. As mentioned, I am not in a position to fight a costly legal battle and actually just have basically had enough of the distress. I felt I was nearing the end of my tether and so have decided that as I would be no use to the DDs if I am laid low with stress related illness, I would agree to him having contact for four weeks in 2011.

I have been through hell and I am sure it isn't over yet but my mail to him basically said that I would expect him to accompany them and be with them for their stay in Aus rather than go to work. I have asked that he think of them and their welfare and must trust that he will take care of them. To date I have had no response!

I feel a mixture of relief and a mummy's instinct that I will, when the trip gets near, feel a worry and fear like never before.

No papers have arrived but I have no doubt they would have/will!

My hope is that the DDs will have a fantastic time in Aus and that I will get a break when the time comes. My ex must take responsibility for the girls and I must trust that he will. They will grow up knowing their daddy and I will have facilitated that and they will have better holidays than anyone in their class!

Thanks so much for taking the time to post. It really is great to know that there are so many lovely concerned mummies.

Have a good evening and a great big thanks again and Merry Christmas... my DDs broke up on Friday lunchtime!

xxxxxx

I think is summer 2011 they will probaby cope with it okay for 4 weeks, they will at least have each other. If they don't want to go when the time comes then that is something you can deal with then.

When everything has calmed down a lot more you could also take the step of moving them to state school and relieving the financial pressures on yourself.

YOu're a great mum on your dc will be fine in the long run. Who knows the ex may well diappear in the not too distant future.

Thx Sleigh. Thanks for posting and for your kind words. 2011 seems like such a long way off that I just want to forget about it for now and enjoy my life for a bit - who knows what will have changed by then.

xx

Yes do that, enjoy life, move on to better things and try to stop wasting your energy and time on he is is so not worth it.

I wonder if distance will make him less and less interested in controlling/bullying you all because he won't really get any immediate feed back from any of you.

Sounds like your decision has made you feel much relieved which is brilliant.

Please don't be offended if I express my opinion though that there is a possibility that all his threats were empty and that no papers will arrive and he has got the result that he wanted through pressuring you.

However, as others and yourself have said Summer 2011 is a long way off and if DDs maintain a good relationship with him and you feel the time is right then they will have a great time.

Don't forget though that you do not have to stick to this agreement if in the future you have a good reason to change your mind. Do you think it would be a good idea to continue the 'record keeping' in case there are any issues in the future.

Happy Christmas - and here's to a peaceful New Year (as if!!)!!!!

In part, I'm sorry you've conceded, but then I'm not the one under immense pressure, dealing with his bullying and hectoring - it must be very, very wearing.

But 2ndly it might also be a good tactic. You say he likes to "win" and so he thinks he has. A lot can change in a year.

When's he going? It can't be soon enough.

WMP. You are right, his threats may well all have been empty although I am sure he will still have his demands encapsulated in a contact order. Let's hope he is reasonable and is able to accept that as the children get older they may not want to spend half of their holidays away from their friends. I imagine he will pujt in that his parents have generous access.

As you suggest, I will continue to keep a record of events. Just this weekend, he changed the arrangements for collection of the DDs, again leaving me with ruined plans.

Heated - Thx for your post. He says he is going anytime from Jan - March 2010 but I have no firm date. I have now asked him for specific details of when he is going, where and details of the accommodation that will be provided for the girls during their stay.

Finally, I am going to ask that he makes a contribution to the girls education. I very much doubt he will be at least I will have it on record for the future and can sort out how/if I can continue to fund their education on my own.

Thanks so much everyone for your support.... I will of course keep you posted of developments!

Hope santa is good to you all.

xx

Not read the other replies so apologies if duplicating, but Aus is much too far for little kids to have to travel on their own. If he wants to see his daughters then he can travel to see them in the UK. It was his choice to emmigrate.

Hi there, I have a daughter of 12 who's father stays in Australia. We've travelled over there three times since she was born. There has been mention now that she should fly there on her own, assisted by the flight companies. Up until now her father has paid for all the fairs however I'm thinking about paying for my own fair next time but only because I get on with him and his family. I would just like to say that before I went over I got legal advise about my right of custody whilst there, and everything was safe in that sense. Most importantly I would like to really emphasise that it is a LONG HAUL flight and there is no way you should put your children through it without you. My daughter wont be travelling to Australia on her own until she's at least sixteen.

Hi Hazekers. It is great that you get on with your ex and his family... everything becomes much easier. He proposes that he or his parents will travel with the DDs.

He has today emailed to say that as I have now agreed that they can travel for four weeks in summer 2011 then he would like them for five weeks in 2012 and six weeks thereafter. He was this all sealed in a contact order. I am still quite shocked as I felt that I was compromising by offering four weeks (half the summer hols).

I have said I will consider the contact order once prepared but would suggest that half the summer hols is more realistic. His mails are aggressive and bullying.

Please can you let me know what advice you received in terms of your daughter travelling to Aus, how long etc.

Thanks so much.

looneymum, have just checked back in and read the last few posts. How awful that he is just keeping on and on and on.

how would it be if you prepare a 'cut and paste' response that goes - you have agreed to the 4 weeks in summer 2011 and after that visit has taken place, you will review the situation. Send this back to every email you get.

Hi Dusty. Sounds like a good idea but, the reality is that he has said court papers have been issued so I imagine if I don't do what I am told then it will be to court for me. I will look at the contact order when it is prepared but can't agree to anything that cannot be upheld. When the kids go to secondary school, they will only get six weeks in total. I am not sure how he thinks that will work! Tosser!

looneymum, I haven't been following this so apologies if you've already explained, but have you been to mediation? I'm sure a court would expect you to work this out in mediation first.

Please don't feel you have to agree to anything because of the court threat. It seems like this is the ploy he is using.
You can see clearly that if you give in at all, he ups the ante. This is a game.

It sounds to me as though he is showing off to someone in a, 'look at how I'm in charge here' way. Girlfriend or parents perhaps.

I would ignore. What can he possibly do? When and if the papers from court do arrive, do nothing. No one's going to throw you into prison. You've made a perfectly reasonable offer. Don't respond any more.

I think you need to dig your heels in (I do like Dusty's suggestion as its very pragmatic) - otherwise as soon as you don't agree with him on any issue he'll threaten court. So either you accept that you may wind up in court sometime soon (which could be a good thing - as so many have said on here his demands are so unreasonable its incredibly unlikely they'll be agreed to unconditionally, and once its been settled in court you have a legal document to stop him mucking you around so much) or you continually pander to his every whim. He can write what he likes in a contact order request, it doesn't mean its going to be agreed to by you or granted by a court.

Have the paper's arrived yet? If I haven't got my days muddled its already outside of his "they'll be with you within the week" window. Is it possible he's just using the threat with no real intention to follow through?

Hi Tangle. Yep - I'm a bit lost with how to proceed. He reckons the court docs may come but he may be able to intercept them. A friend of mine who used to be a lawyer says that ex will portray himself in court as extremely plausible and a fantastic daddy who is just desperate to see his girls. She said I should be prepared that it may not go my way.

He also said in his e-mail that he doesn't know when he is going to Aus as it is subject to this contact issue being sorted before he goes.

I wont do anything yet as I am meeting my ex lawyer chum on Wednesday and will see what she thinks about the new developments. Subject to what she says, I think I will e-mail to say I am happy to consider contents of contact order but that half the hols is fair going forward. I imagine court will be threatened again but I just cannot agree to them going for six weeks.... what about seeing their friends, holidays with me, my family.......god I wish he would just f* off!

So far as mediation goes.... the thought of seeing his fat baldy face over a table makes me want to puke. I understand that his solicitor should offer it.... perhaps that is coming next.

Thanks so much for posting..... I need a lie down now!

So..... (sorry if I've got this wrong) is it the case that he wants something (unreasonable), you've expressed concerns, and he's threatened court papers (oh, but he might be able to intercept them - yeah, right. That screams to me that there never were any!) ] ....... but surely that doesn't mean he gets what he wants??
What about your views? Where do they get heard? Only if you can afford to pay? Surely not! Where's the justice in that?

And what happens if you say "yeah, right, whatever" and he jets off to his new life, how is he going to be able to enforce you packing them up and delivering them to the airport? Especially from 12000 miles away?

I understand your exhaustion with the whole issue, but I am so angry on your behalf.

Hi Clam. Ha ha lol lol lolly! You are so right... that is it in a nutshell! So, what can I do.... ?

Any legal family law types on here that can tell us where the justice is in this case? Is it reasonable that I sell the children's home and take them out of school to fund fighting their fuckwit of a father who wants to have them for six weeks around the other side of the world without a thought for their welfare. Will he look after them personally when he has them.. I don't think so.... wanker!!!! AAaaarrrggggghhhh I need a glass of vino... a biggun!

xxxx

You need Yerblurt. He'll be able to give you some good advice about the whole process and can tell you about representing yourself. If you join Families Need Fathers (who give advice and support to women and men) you can get a Mackenzie Friend to come with you to court and act as an adviser and advocate for you.

I haven't read the whole thread, but it sounds to me like he's bullshitting. I didn't think that you could get a court order without both parties being present ... I may be wrong. And they really encourage you to work things out through mediation.

Maybe start a thread in legal or step-parenting and link to this one. Both he and his wife post in step-parenting so he's more likely to see it.

Hi Frosty. Thanks so much. I have posted in step parenting to see if I can get some help from Yerblurt. I haven't registered yet with FNF but will. Thanks again.