Help!!!! Father demanding access in Australia

[looneymum]

Hello. I am distraught. I am newly divorced and my ex is soon to emmigrate to Australia. I have two DDs aged 7 and 5. Me and my ex do no communicate other than e-mail. My girls are reluctant to see their father although I have provided him with generous access. His emmigration has been on the cards for some time and particularly the DD1 has said she does not wish to visit him when he goes. I have told her that she does not have to if she doesn't want to. I have now received an e-mail from him, saying I am to expect a solicitors letter and that I am to let the children visit. He says that we should work together to make them visit him. This is the horror of a father who has left us with nominal maintenance and who refused to carry on paying for the private schooling he insisted they have prior to him leaving me. I am beside myself. I have no more money to pay for solicitors to fight this monster and only want the best for my children. If they were happy to go I would support it but should I just ignore their wishes and make them go? xxxx

Hi, looneymum, I have just read through this entire thread, and was astonished by all you had to put up with. Posters have had some very sensible advice and counsel, and I hope that will help. FWIW, I totally agree with the posters who indicated that they were bloody sceptical about the real existence of court orders and "see you in court" dates, as none of those appears to have materialised.

I also wanted to comment on your efforts on the home front, as this thread doesn't seem to have paid enough attention to your life with your DCs outside the battle which has been raging (hopefully) beyond their sight. I was really touched at your joy in spending time with your children, and feel that they must sense that. However, you are also right to be wary of allowing your ex to cherrypick the time-off times, when everyone should be able to relax. You deserve time off, and time to have fun, with your children, as well. You have a very right claim on their "time off", when there are not pressures of schoolwork, getting to sleep on time, cleaning rooms, etc. You have earned that time with them, and should bring this up in court (if it ever gets there).

Good luck. You are holding up well. It is a strong and sensible person who asks for help. Your ex is just paying for his help, and is not helping himself with his arsing around, either!

Best wishes.

He really is a nasty piece of work.

I think I would be considering withdrawing the agreement of 4 weeks for 2011 if that is the game he's going to play.

"I have spoken to parents with children who flew to Aus when their dc were x & y. I now realise that it is totally innapropriate. YOu will have to have contact here for the next 5 years or so"

I will start by saying I have only just read this thread, and skimmed through a lot of it, so sorry if I have missed anything.

We do not live so far away, but we have the opposite problem, my husband's ex wil not put my step children (aged 13 and 17) on a plane to come and see us. She says no responsible parent would...

I also have children with my ex husband, who has lived and worked abroad for most of the time sincewe split up, but is now back in the UK with a low paid job and paying paltry maintenance.

On top of that, my own parents had avery bitter divorce. So, I can see all sides here.

I know I am being devils advocate here,but you seem very bitter towards your ex husband and haven't mentioned the circumstances of your divorce. I realise it is very hard, but you must thin abotu what the children want. If they are excited about the prospect of going to visit their Daddy, surely that's a good thing? I'm not sure why you'd be suspsicious of them changing their mind in favor of visiting after obviously discussing it? Your ex seems willing to go to considerable effort and expense to see his children once he emigrates, so he must care about them. Whilst I can see it is a long plane hourney, plenty of people take their children of that age to Australia, and they would be with their Father/Grandparents, so not alone.

I understand you are worried about them, but at one time you must have loved and trusted this man (their father). I can understand that he wants them to visit him in his new (and exciting) home. Personally, I would be encouraging the children to go an dputting it in a positive light. Imagine if you don't and the court order you to send them? They'll be dreading it.

midori one of the big issues is that unfortunately looneymum's ex has been consistent in not putting the dc first especially with regards to contact with them. He often cancels, changes it and best of all it is rarely him looking after them. The grandparents are frail and looneymum felt before they even split up that they weren't capable of looking after the children.

Their father is not prepared to come back to the UK to visit them once he has emigrated which would surely be a better option whilst they are so young?

Nothing that looneymum has said in this thread or past indicates that she is a scorned ex intent on using her dc in a bitter battle. Although sadly I do know several mums who are like that and have seen the devasting consequences of it.

Ah Ladies. Thanks so much again.

Midori - I take your points. I have agreed the children can visit Aus for 4 weeks. He has now come back to say he wants 4 weeks, then 5 weeks then 6 weeks thereafter. The DDs would not have time to recover before the school terms start in September. I just want what is best and being accompanied by 70 year old parents on a 18 hour flight (although who knows where in Aus he is going so it might be more) just doesn't seem in the girls best interests. I feel I have been extremely reasonable. Perhaps I have used a couple of unnecessarily vulgar words on here... just to vent my frustration... and that is why you feel I am bitter.

Hi Winged Vic. You are so kind. I am bearing up and these posts are definitely keeping me sane. I too hope that someone will consider me in this whole sorry story.... Thx so much.

Hello Sleigh. I am in fact considering applying to the courts for my own contact order. He has said he is not going to Aus yet (who knows when then) and I can't stand another year of cancelled plans and putting my life on hold whilst waiting for him to cancel arrangements. It just depends whether my fragile stress beaten body can cope! Also, just so I have my story factually correct, his parents aren't "frail" but rather approaching 70 and both have been ill during the time I knew them. I suppose this will be a difficult one to enter into in court as ex will say they are in fine health and it will be difficult to prove.

And finally (!). I e-mailed ex to see if he would contribute towards the children's education. It was a resounding "no". He appears to be very bitter that I too have now met a lovely new partner.... I can't wait to get on with my new life with my lovely girls! Obviously with the DDs having a glorious relationship with their father too!!!!! xxx

Hi looneymum

Have skim read the thread. Have you recived anything from the court as yet?

I'm with frostythesurfmum on this I think he is bullshitting and bullying to get his own way.
I feel his is bullying you into getting consent.
I think his demands are unreasonable and would be looked on very unfavourably in court.
Just my intial thoughts.

I can completely see your point about the girls not having time to recover before school if they stay the whole six weeks, or even five weeks, and I agree that allowing him to have the children for four week sis plenty of time. Certainly at taheir age.

My friend is cabin crew for BA and she has often told me of young children visiting parents/relatives abroad on long haul flights completely unaccompanied and they see it as an adventure, as their parents prepare them well ahead. I can understand your concerns re the grandparents ages, but my own Grandparents are in their mid seventies and despite some illnesses (particularly my Grandfather) manage to care for my own children very well. I can't see what harm they could come to on a flight, no matter how long it is.

To me, a long flight is less damaging to them than not seeing their father, and going to Australia will be wonderful for them. How manyof us lving here in the UK can say we have been there?

Tbh, your reasons to not agreeing to more than four weeks visitation is perfectly reasonable, and the fact you have agreed to four weeks would show the court you are trying to come to an agreement.

FWIW, if my ex husband goes abroad next year again, (singapore, so not much less of a sflight than Australia) my own 8 and 13 year olds will be flying to see him alone. I can't let the five year old though, as he has Downs, which obviously affects his behaviour/maturity. My own children, I appreciate ar somewhat older, but view it as a great adventure.

Actually I can't see his logic of wanting them 5 and then 6 weeks. Surely the point would be wanting to see them more frequently?

I don't think I would discuss thing with him anymore by email or otherwise.

Perhaps you can just keep saying 3-4 weeks in the summer holidays up to 2 weeks the rest of the year within the UK and repeat repeat repeat repeat and then let him take you to court.

Hi there

I saw your callout on a previous thread, really sorry about the delay in replying, it's been busy as hell in the house!

I personally think your ex is being unreasonable. It has been HIS decision to move 1/2 way across the world (when he really doesn't have any need to), my view is that both parents should stay within close locality (indeed in some states of the US this is a condition of separation if there is to be a shared care arrangement).

Contact when one parent lives overseas is always problematic and whilst it is impractical for contact to occur as frequently as, say, on a monthly basis due to the distance.

Normally in situations like this nearly all holidays would be for the child to have contact with the overseas parent though.

I think his threats are unlikely to be successful but yes, costs rapidly ramp up in a contact order dispute. You would have no problem self-representing yourself as a Litigant In Person (LIP) with the aid of a McKenzie friend. I would strongly recommend you pop along to your local Families Need Fathers meeting to get some advice. Look up your local FNF branch on the web and give your local branch chair a call/email. FNF, despite the name, are a gender-neutral national charity and help out all parents/carers, indeed about 1/4 of our membership is female (including female parents/carers/grandparents/new partners).

It's worthwhile engaging in dialogue - all by letter (keeping copies for yourself) snet recorded delivery either to your ex's solicitors with your proposals and requesting discussion of the child matters at the local family Mediation services.

It's unlikely the ex will have submitted a C100 form as his proposals really are quite unrealistic.

In my mind it would be more reasonable for the first years contact to be in the UK for a couple of weeks. Especially as the children are 7 + 5. It's OK travelling to mainland europe at this age, but to australia is one hell of a jump in one go. Better to have initial contact in the UK and then a couple of weeks in australia in subsequent years.

It would be normal for the other parent who has relocated to pay for the travel and to organise it, he can either travel here to the UK or organise chaperones. I don't think it's reasonable for 60yr olds to be doing this, plus how many years are they going to be willing to do this? Not many I bet.

Contact in future years could be phased in for longer periods depending on the age of the children. All summer holidays is probably a bit too long - can the ex have contact during other holiday periods such as easter / half-term?

Hope this helps somewhat...

Many many thanks Yerblurt... I hope you have had a great... if not somewhat busy christmas!

Thanks for your comments. I have agreed that he can have four weeks contact with the DDs in Aus in 2011. It would seem that this is not enough though as evidenced by his desire to have them five, and six weeks in the subsequent years. You say that you feel all holidays in cases like this would be with the overseas parent.... can you point me towards any precedent that has been set? As the DDs will only get six weeks summer hols in secondary school, they will have to be removed from school in order to travel to Aus... wouldn't a judge disagree as this is not acceptable.... any thoughts?

So far as other hols go, DDs get three weeks at xmas and two weeks in May (so long as I can keep them in independent ed) and when they are in seconary ed, less hols. I can't see that they can travel for Aus for this time and would say he should return to the UK for some of the time rather than the DDs always having to make the journey and the impact it would have on them.

Thanks again.

Another twist is that DD1 has announced that ex's partner, in Aus, is now pregnant. He must have had a reversal to his snip!

Oh and he has now e-mailed me to say that he isn't leaving for Aus until end June 2010.

Is that good news or bad? Deferring the move, I mean.
Well, and the pregnancy?

Well, to be honest, I wish he would just go. He says one of the reasons he is not going is that he wants a court order endorsing the contact with the DDs. Perhaps that means he wont go if he doesn't get what he wants.... but that will be difficult if his partners baby is due next year... a very strange situation....

Not sure what to make of it all. Feel very much for the DDs... what will they make of it all when they are older.... daddy is with their step brother/sister whilst they are here. I think it is quite sad.

Still, I believe I am being truly reasonable to offer half the summer hols and that he returns to the UK for other contact. He may well still take it to court and if he thinks his request is reasonable and in the girls best interest then I suppose we must let the judge make the final decision.

Roll on 2010!

Happy new year ladies. Hope it is going to be a great 2010 for everyone.

The next instalment is that ex's parents picked up DDs on Thursday - I hadn't seen them since ex left, so that's about two years. Anyway, I was polite and pleasant. I feel that the precedent has been set for if they do the pick up going forward.

Is it too early for a little drinkie..? May pour myself a little glass.... it's hard to know what to do with yourself when you haven't got your kids..... perhaps I should do a bit of colouring in!

Hey looney, How are you doing without the girls? Enjoying a bit of you time, I hope.

Hi Plumm. Doing well thx. Hope you are having fun too. Girls are back at lunchtime... snow permitting!

It's been lovely having a little break but I need my littlies back now.... safe and sound and back in their snuggly beds tonight!

Have a good one.
x

Hi looney - there's a thread going at the moment (can't do links, sorry) about an ex-wife who refuses to let her 13 and 17 year old fly to Northern Ireland to see their dad. And you thought you were being unreasonable.

Hi Clam. Happy new year... hope it's a good one. Will see if I can find that thread... always good to see what everyone is up to! x

Hello ladies. No school for us today which is a nice treat!

Does anyone know whether flights can be booked now for a trip to Australia in July 2011? Ex seems desperate for passports and I just wonder if you can book so far in advance?

Thanks

Hey Looneymum - I haven't posted on your thread before. But you have my full support.

Anyhoo - I have just gone on to BA website and tried to book for Jul 2011 and it's impossible on line. They only take bookings for up to a year (Dec 2010) in advance.

Sorry can't be any more help.
xxx

Hiya NL. Thanks so much. Yes, I tried too, using a different airline and didn't have any success but wondered if I was barking up the wrong tree. Not sure why ex is banging on about needing copies of the passports... he is a slimey snakey toad so I imagine it is for some underhand reason!

Happy sledging!
x

Get this. Ex has now said he "needs" a contact order! I had originally said I agree to his request for half the summer hols in 2011 but that there are too many variables to have it encapsulated in a contact order. So as I say he now "needs" an order. Obviously me agreeing isn't good enough. Knob!

Don't do it! DO NOT give him those passports.

Thx LilyP. Yep. I intend to hold on to the passports for as long as possible and perhaps just give the numbers rather than the whole thing when it comes to it!

Have a good evening.

Hmmmm I wonder if he is trying to get residency for them there along with him? Perhaps he can't go over there without there being a contact order in place in case he is going to try and absuct them? Not saying that he is but perhaps the aussie authorities want to ensure their name isn't dragged through the mud IYSWIM.

What on earth does he need the passports for, very suspicious indeed.

You could get a contact order that states he may have the first 4 weeks of their school summer holidays, all other contact to be in the UK by mutual agreement in advance and of course let him pay for it!