Help!!!! Father demanding access in Australia

[looneymum]

Hello. I am distraught. I am newly divorced and my ex is soon to emmigrate to Australia. I have two DDs aged 7 and 5. Me and my ex do no communicate other than e-mail. My girls are reluctant to see their father although I have provided him with generous access. His emmigration has been on the cards for some time and particularly the DD1 has said she does not wish to visit him when he goes. I have told her that she does not have to if she doesn't want to. I have now received an e-mail from him, saying I am to expect a solicitors letter and that I am to let the children visit. He says that we should work together to make them visit him. This is the horror of a father who has left us with nominal maintenance and who refused to carry on paying for the private schooling he insisted they have prior to him leaving me. I am beside myself. I have no more money to pay for solicitors to fight this monster and only want the best for my children. If they were happy to go I would support it but should I just ignore their wishes and make them go? xxxx

Hi Ladies. A sleepless night for me. I did send an e-mail to my ex acknowledging his change in pickup from Fri to Sat and advising that on this occasion I was able to encompass his change. However, within seconds he had responded to say I should expect court papers by next week. He feels that court will be a formality to secure his contact with the children in Aus during the hols (either xmas or summer) 2011.

This was followed by a message from his parents to change the dates that my ex and I had originally agreed. By way of background, my ex has now moved from living midway up the country to the north and his parents live in the south. For the new year break, his parents propose picking the children up a day earlier than me and ex had agreed and then take them up north (we live about two hours away from where he lives in the north of england... sorry v confusing!). I reckon this is at least a five/six hour trip for his parents. I am not happy that his father make this journey and am worried for the safety of my children. His driving is bad at the best of times and he has diabetes that I believe affects his feet. Anyway, I am horrified. Can I just say no? Can I ask that they break the journey up with an overnight stay as I don't believe they are capable of the drive?! I believe my ex is trying to make a case that his parents are capable of making long journeys and looking after the DDs and so strengthening his case for his parents to accompany the DDs to Aus at some point in the future. His parents, I think, are 67.

Okay, so I am now rambling and scared. I feel so trapped. I don't want to be unreasonable but don't believe the children's safety is being considered. Also they bloody arrangements are being changed again.

Aaarrrhhhhhhhhh .... please help.

xx

If you really think the relatives aren't safe to drive your kids you can say no. Diabetes doesn't necessarily affect driving ability though, many diabetics drive safely and their feet are fine.
If you had still been with your ex would you have been happy for them to drive your kids?

If you really believe his driving is unsafe of course you can say no.

If the change in date is inconvenient you can say no.
Just reply that you wish to stick to the earlier mutually agreed plan of your ex collecting the kids on the day they had arranged and tell the GPs that this is the 3rd change in a row your ex had demanded and you wanted to just stick to all arrangements in future and not have changes and that you are happier with him driving long distances.

I'm not sure why you are scared here. It's up to you to say yes or no.

Blimely Looney, I have read through everything and am staggered your x is being such an arse about stuff - bullying on one hand but then turning up early/late for his contact visits.

Wouldn't a formal contact agreement be in your advantage that x-arse would have to stick to his side too? Every time he turned up 3 hours early on a sunday you could record this as him not sticking to the deal.

As for the gps and the long drive business - I'm worried you may sound a bit unreasonable if you don't try to compromise here. Could you suggest meeting the gps half way? You need to look as if you've bent over backwards to be reasonable where the demands are reasonable. Wont that give you more clout when the time comes to say no to Oz?

Hi everyone. Thanks. I don't know why I am scared either. Probs because of the court thing. I cannot afford a lawyer, do not qualify for legal aid and will have to represent myself. I have been thru hell and I want to get on with my life and do the best for our little dds. Ex is also very manipulative and is deffo setting out his stall for court by suggesting his parents do this intial long drive.

I suppose it is all about precedent. His parents never during, marriage, separation nor divorce ever made the journey up the country to drop off/pick up. It was a standing joke that ex's father was a bad driver. Whilst the DDs have been with their GPs DD1 has been sick in the car and grandad's driving was blamed. I even saw a scribbled note that came back in the kids bag, written by ex's mother, saying what a bad driver grandad was. Sadly I threw it away as I am sure it would have been massively incriminating.

I do not wish to sound petty but I do not want to involve myself in the dropping off/picking up. Obviously this may sound unreasonable but it is my view that should my ex not be able to pick them up then why should I have to ferry DDs around the country to facilitate access. He has left me with barely enough to pay their school dinner money and I surely cannot be expected to fork out for petrol.

I feel very sad and tearful. I imagine he is going to use big gun lawyers to get his own way. I, of course, am left dealing with the every day demands of two small children, whilst having this never ending horror forever bubbling away.

There was an article in the Times this morning about a father in America, who had left his family in the UK to live with another woman in the States, basically refusing to let his son return after a visit and convincing everyone around him that the son did not want to return. So the courts were no help, even though the law was on the mother's side. Please do read it; I hope it is online.

Why haven't you got a solicitor? You must be entitled to legal aid.

Meanwhile, don't reply to his emails. Every time he emails you, print it out, type a reply, and put it in an envelope and post to to his solicitor. As he is legally represented it is inappropriate, you can protest in all innocence, for you two to communicate directly on this issue.

His solicitor will charge him 2 x units for perusal of each letter 1 for reading his email to you, 1 for reading your letter to them), then 1 unit for writing to him regarding it, and then when he rings her/him doing his nut will charge him for the phone call. Each email he sends you about this will thus cost him about half an hour of his solicitor's time, which will be at least £100. Hit this bullying loon where it hurts, in the pocket.

OK just read your post clarifying that you are not entitled to LA but can't afford solicitor of your own. That is a bugger.

Rest of my post stands though.

Have had a good cry. Not helpful I know but feel very lost. I think it best that I wait for the papers before doing anything further.

Good point about all correspondence going through his solicitor although last letter received from his sol was some time ago and it went to the solicitor I used during the financial dispute.... I just ignored it!

I have read the artical in The Times. How horrible.... my ex has deffo been manipulative with the DDs as they are now keen to go to Aus on hols whereas before they did not want to go. I don't enter into any discussion about Aus at all now. DD1 said the other day said she was scared of going because of the large spiders.... I didn't comment.

Thanks everyone.

Write to his soliicitor then and say your previous sols are not acting for you, and all correspondence should be addressed to you. Then start with the email/print out trick.

Looney sorry to hear about your horrible day, poor you.

Two issues here - firstly the New Year Trip. I can see why you are worried but I wonder if grandparents would agree to the drive if they didn't feel up to it. You could respectfully enquire if there is any possibility of an overnight stay given the nature of the journey. They may well refuse but at least you have enquired. You could also just say no but you may need to be careful to ensure this is seen as genuine concern for DD and not being obstructive (not me you have to convince BTW, I know you only want the best for them).

Secondly, the court threat. I would not be suprised if he is just trying upset you following your perfectly reasonable email to him. The threat could be empty. However if its not please don't panic, he may have a hot shot lawyer on his side, but that does not make him right or invincible. As I have said before facts are facts and the court will see that, they will not listen to your side of the arguement with any more favour than his side. The very fact that he arrives with an expensive legal team and you only have yourself (or whatever comes free, I am not familiar with the set up) may well tell them that he is a bully.

As for arranging now what happens in 2011, that seems riduculous and others on this thread have already agreed with me.

You could call his bluff and ask who the solicitor is that he is dealing with so that you can make sure you only correspond via them (as suggested by Giorgimama). However, I guess he could thm call your bluff back.

Oh this bullying makes me so angry, I really feel for you. Try not to be afraid, you are doing the right thing for DCs, you can do this. Keep your cool and stay smart.

Ah thank you Paddle. I am just starting to calm down. I am thinking that I may have to let his parents do the transporting - I do not want to seem unreasonable. I may express a preference that Ex does long distance driving and just leave it at that but I imagine it will make the grandparents and him kick off.... what do you think?

I know I need to keep my wits about me so far as court is concerned. It will all be in the prep and the ability for me to stand my ground on the day. I wonder where it will be held... hopefully a court near me or I will struggle for childcare!

I have an overwhelming "run away" feeling!

xx

Glad you feel a bit calmer- not that I blame you for being angry and upset.

I think you have every right to say that you would prefer EXH to do long distance driving, rather than grandparents. However, there is a good chance that this will upset them all and to insist on it may look obstructive. I wouldn't worry about upsetting EX, I think that is inevitable unless you just roll over and give in to everything. However, upsetting the grandparents maybe not a good idea and make things more difficult for you in the future in terms of 'rubbing along' together. No doubt they think they are perfectly capable of driving DCs, and may take it very personally that you consider them too old / unhealthy / reckless to do so. I casual "drive carefully won't you" while looking into grandpa's eyes is fine though!!

It would be really good to find out how the whole set up for the court thing may work. I am sure its not all like you see on TV. Maybe CAB could help, they do free sessions. Or maybe someone on MN can advise. I am sure preparation is important and will help you to feel in control but at the end of the day (sorry to repeat myself), they are dealing in facts, most of which you will already know. You know how you feel about the situation, you know the history, you know your girls.......

I wonder what type of preperation you could do? You are keeping all correspondence and a record of anything significant (no matter how small, how often he speaks to DCs- everything), file this in a way that if required you could access things easily and quickly. You could try writing down and practising what you would like to say- you will already know what you need to say but may need to practise a little to keep calm and concise and show that its the DCs interests you are protecting, you are not trying to punish XH etc.

You could also have a few key phrases to keep yourself focussed on sounding as reasonable and rational as possible. Am not suggesting you are not reasonable or rational at all but guess in the heat of the moment it could be tempting to get personal with EXH.

I have totally jumped the gun here but just had a few thoughts- hope you don't mind.

Thanks WheresMP. I have kept all documents but unfortunately they need printing off and collating in an easy to access fashion. As it looks like court is imminent, I suppose I must focus and get a file together. The CAB although v kind were not really any use. I am sure I can find the court procedure on the internet. My previous sol I think is offering a little free time (well when I say free, I bloody paid him the deposit of a small house in fees) but all advice is gratefully received!

In terms of key "reasonable" phrases, I suppose my most used ones are "in the best interests of the children"... "providing a stable and secure environment".... actually I can't think of any more..... HELP!

Thanks so much.

xx

Am about to finish work so not much time for having a think on this one- but will give it some thought.

They are great phrases but I actually meant more like mantras (in a non-ohhmmm way)- so things to repeat to keep yourself on track like maybe "dont rise to the bait", "stay calm", "stick to the facts". All obvious stuff whan you are calm but less so if under pressure.

Another thing would be to list your objections to his likely requests with reasons, list anything you agree with, list compromises that you can think of. Get your thoughts on paper, edit them to take away anything overly obstructive etc... You could show your notes to someone or post on here to get their input.

I hope someone can help you get a picture of the set-up, types of questions etc. Don't forget you can take your time answering questions, ask for things to be explained etc..

Don't forget though its not a competition as to who gives best court performance. Its about telling the situation as it is and we all know who is in the right.

Sorry one more thing. Court may be imminent, or it may not be, this could all be him bullying you. Guess by this time next week we will know for sure.

However, even if you have to go to court I am sure you will be given reasonable time to prepare.

Hi WMP. Thanks so much for taking the time to post. Your ideas are great. I am starting to wonder whether I am may need a legal rep, perhaps just for the day. I am worried that I will go to pieces and have a breakdown... the stress is already getting to me! I need to be strong for the girls and perhaps the money I spend will restore my faith in the legal system and show that I am only doing what is best for the lovely DDs.

Ex needs to be shown that I have been extremely compliant and have always offered generous contact and actively promoted the relationship (sometimes having to shove wailing children out the door when he turns up and they don't want to go). I have also encompassed all his changes to arrangements so as to cause as little distress to DDs as possible. I have also told him that they will go to Aus at some point in the future but it will be when they are mature enough to endure the trip. He, of course, can return to the UK for contact whenever he wishes.

I have secured a meagre paying job that fits around the kids (school hours/term time) so as not to have to put them into after school care. (I was, during marriage, in the lucky position of not having to work and so dedicated all my time to being a mummy). I have maintained the private education that he removed funding for hence maintaining as much stability as possible. God I am so great.... what judge wont see that........!!!!????

How are you today anyway... enough of my blithering problems. Any nice plans for the weekend? Is your xmas tree up yet?

xx

Obviously I dont know you but you sound like a strong person, I feel sure you wouldn't go to pieces - surely its part of their job to put you at ease...... You may even be able to do a better job of explaining yourself than a legal representative??!! Definately a good job to look into options though, and if you can afford to get some advice then I think it would be very worthwhile if only to relieve some of the anxiety you are feeling.

I take my hat off to you for all you have done for the DCs. They are really lucky that you have held everything together for them and helped maintain their relationship with their Daddy. There is no question that any judge will see you as a fantastic mother (don't forget you are not 'on trial' though!!).

Very excited here as me and DP are off on holiday tomorrow until Friday with some friends. We are not taking our DS, which I have very mixed feelings about- will miss him terribly but a break away will be so very welcome. He is with GPs and we are missing him already!!

I hope you have a good week, keep us updated - I will check in to see what has evolved when I get back from my hols.
XX

Looneymum

Another poster mention xps holding on to kids whilst they are abroad.

I would imagine that if the move to Oz does happen and he wasn't access ie dcs go there - will you be applying for residence for them ie that it's noted in law that they reside in the UK?

Do you TRUST this man at all - the kids will love Oz but it all seems to be on his terms - too much on his terms.

Don't be scared - looks like you've been through the worst - just one big push at the court hearing to set everything in stone.

I would worry about my kids going to see a father abroad without me to be honest.

Hi Giveitago. Thx so much for posting. I am so not happy about them going but am wondering whether I should suggest two weeks, him coming back from Aus to take them on the flight and return them back home afterwards. Also to say he must be off work and look after them whilst they are in Aus. My gut instinct is that they are too young and it will be too disruptive to their primary residence to make the trip but I want them to have a relationship with him. I am so distraught.

I have not considered that I need apply for residency. I presumed this would continue to be joint even after his emigration but am not sure of the legalities. Thx for this I will have to find out.

I am not sure whether he is trustworthy. I know that he often doesn't look after the kids himself and goes to work and leaves them with his parents for a week. He also has left them with a live in nanny previously but that was a while ago. He cancels and adjusts arrangements whenever he wants and that makes me uneasy.

Please let it be over soon. I think I may need to visit the docs as I am so stressed but I don't want to give him cause to try and take the kids off me.

xxx

Hi WMP. Hope your hols go well. Just have fun - your DS will be having a fab time and you will have a splendid break.

Thanks for your supportive words. I will, of course, keep you posted of the next instalment.

Talk soon.
xx

He doesn't need to know if you go to the doctor's, surely? That's a private matter.

I meant residency ie they are UK residents - this was mentioned as something I would need to do if dh and I divorced as he's a non national and our little one is a uk national - just to ensure that it is clear in law and to everyone that inspite where parents may live - they are UK based etc. Sure someone else knows more about this.

It will be over soon - you're almost there and that's why you are sooo tired - just because the man is an arse and is enjoying making his life difficult.

Quite honestly he's got elderly parents here - why can't he come here and visit kids and them too - I don't see parents flying out there each year. And what cheek that the kids should fly with gps -he really doesn't like travelling to see his kids does he - he wan't them bloody delivered. Actually yep OZ what a great opportunity - you should go too.

You are amazing - he is a tedious shit - get it over with - stand your ground - you've been very very reasonable get the papaerwork in order and including emails and other evidence of his bullying and mucking you around on access (should it be needed).

Then once over - pray he flies to new life really fast.

Hi Ladies. Thx again for your posts.

Clam - you are right he does not need to know that I am close to the edge and that the docs is a private matter.... but perhaps I should get a docs note to say I am suffering with stress due to the situation - it's a thought.

GiveIAG - thanks so much for your lovely words. I am swaying between confidence and dread at what might be ordered by the judge. Anyway, what will be will be. The papers will arrive and I must deal with them... simple as that.

Have a good day.
x

He seems to have been huffing and puffing about issuing you with papers for quite a long time now. Yet none have arrived yet?

Is he just trying to wind you up? Or is something big imminent? Sorry if I've missed something.

Hi Clam. I hope you are right and he is just huffing and puffing. Unfortunately, he is the type of man who likes to "win". He has emailed to say the court papers will be with me in a week and I sort of get the feeling he will be true to his word.

I feel tortured. I have been thru every scenario and yesterday talked to someone at the Child Advice Line who seemed to think it could go either way. I need to stand firm on my reasons for them not going to Australia until I feel they are mature and ready for the trip. Please see reasons below and feel free to add/remove!

Disruption to their routine and primary residence

The knock on effect to their education

They have never been away from me for longer than two weeks

DD1 has previously been upset on the phone to me when away from me in the UK.

Will ex take the time off work to spend quality time with them or will they be looked after by a third party/ his partner / his parents whilst in Aus.

I would like to spend time with the children during the summer holidays.

Where/when is he going to Aus?

What is the house like in Aus ... where will they sleep?

So, it is never ending but I sort of get the feeling my arguments will be overruled by the fact that he is desperate to show off his new house in Aus and partially built swimming pool!

xx