Help!!!! Father demanding access in Australia

[looneymum]

Hello. I am distraught. I am newly divorced and my ex is soon to emmigrate to Australia. I have two DDs aged 7 and 5. Me and my ex do no communicate other than e-mail. My girls are reluctant to see their father although I have provided him with generous access. His emmigration has been on the cards for some time and particularly the DD1 has said she does not wish to visit him when he goes. I have told her that she does not have to if she doesn't want to. I have now received an e-mail from him, saying I am to expect a solicitors letter and that I am to let the children visit. He says that we should work together to make them visit him. This is the horror of a father who has left us with nominal maintenance and who refused to carry on paying for the private schooling he insisted they have prior to him leaving me. I am beside myself. I have no more money to pay for solicitors to fight this monster and only want the best for my children. If they were happy to go I would support it but should I just ignore their wishes and make them go? xxxx

Wow that is shit. Poor you. If it makes you feel any better, and I doubt it does, you're not the only one, I was left without a pot to piss by my lovely x! but ... things are getting better.

I think you could represent yourself. You need to be aware of all the worst case scenarios though. If he didn't return the children, how supportive would the Australian police and courts be?

I think your starting point is a really strong case though.

Why is he going to Australia? If he is not actually Australian himself, then it will be viewed even less sympathetically. IF he is Australian and born and brought up there then the courts might have some sympathy with him. Estranged father with no family support... but if he's British and he is choosing to remove himself voluntarily from the children's habitual domicile then it won't be viewed all that sympathetically I'm guessing.

When you say his parents could accompany the children to Australia, I'm guessing his parents at least are based here, so...

Does he have a new girlfriend? Is she Australian? If so, he's prioritising a relatively new romance over the quality of his relationship with his children.

Doing a bit of a Brian McFadden!! by the sounds of it.

ps, Mumoverseas is a lawyer and she is extremely genned up on this kind of thing. Might be worth doing an FAO Mumoverseas thread?

I once had to use a very good family solicitor. He said something similar, ignore the paddies, give them enough rope and they will hang themselves, do you know what she did! This was my first husbands ex-wife, husband had residency mother flitted in and out of her life.

Thanks Ladies.

Mags. He left me for an Aussie. She has two small boys and she worked in the UK at the time. She has now returned back to Aus with her kids and he aims to join them early next year. His parents are in this country although at the opposite side of the country to me and DDs.

Yep just like Brian McFadden.... I am watching that story closely! x

I'm really pleased things are coming together for you. To be honest, although things are well grim and I am worried sick about appearing in court, it isn't all bad. I have got a little sales job that fits around the kids and tops my child tax credit up! Life isn't about stuff and I am a million times happier than when I was with the fat baldy knob... sorry... not bitter honest! x

Also big thanks for pointing me in the direction of MumOverseas... I will try to seek her out... then bore her senseless with my tales of woe... lucky MO! x

Wow. Well, your case is very strong. He's not returning to his home country, he's leaving to be with the woman who ended your marriage!? AND....... he thinks that you should send the children over to him for his convenience.... Oh EMM GEE. wanker

I keep an eye on the kerry case too. Even though she's a cocaine-snorting bi-polar basket case who ricochets from one loser to the next (with a bit of extra ill-advised) breeding along the way.... it seems as though Brian McFadden is still hated when he speaks out against her. Even in his home country! he was on the late late show recently mocking Kerry, and the bad press he got afterwards was great! NOT that I'd want Kerry Katona for a mother, but you KNOW where I'm coming from.

Men shouldn't be able to swan off because of a new relationship and then expect their X to make loads of sacrifices to facilitate what is now going to be a difficult parental relationship! HE chose to prioritise this romance over living near his children.

MumOverseas knows her stuff. I don't know if this is her area or if she has a sideline advising mumsnetters who've hit the skids!

THings do get better don't they? I've saved a bit in the last two years, may one day be able to get my own small place which nobody can take away.

Hi Mags. It's a funny old life isn't it. Things could of course be worse... glad I'm not in Kerry's shoes... wonder if she still shops at Iceland?!

People keep saying that one day it will all be over. I know it will happen and just am hanging on.. and on .. and on for that lovely day when I don't have to be scared of the e-mail/text or what horror will fall through the letter box. I wonder what 2010 will bring? I hope when the kids are older they understand that mummy did her very best and I hope they have happy memories and don't feel like they were pushed and pulled half way around the world.

Big group hug... I think we need one! xx

a few more points: not to email to him (why give him time to think of an answer?) but to bring up if it does go to court:

• at the moment it appears he has no idea where he is going to live, whether it is suitable for children, or where the girls and his parents would sleep. So he's going to shack up with his new gf and her kids? Does she have 2 spare bedrooms? he has no control over that house at all, it would all hang on new gf's whim. Completely unsuitable as an arrangement for your DDs.

• have his parents ever looked after your DDs for any length of time before? Why should it be thought that they can take all that responsibility?

Hi Iheartdusty. Thanks for your post. Am swinging again towards letting him know that it is not acceptable that he bullies.... a terrible thing to do and frowned upon in all quarters...so am again wondering whether to send that damn email!

He lived with his GF as soon as he left me when she lived in the UK, so I suppose they have some history. You are right, I do not know what the living arrangements would be. He has bragged to the kids that he is building a house and it will be by the beach and have a pool... times are hard eh!

His parents have spent a lot of time with the kids as ex never actually looks after them for longer than a couple of days before he dumps them on his parents. The longest they have been with his parents is for two week stints... tosser ex normally goes to work whilst they do the child care, he works a couple of hours away too so actually doesn't see them til the weekends.

I am thinking it is good to have the whole bullying thing documented as it can be referred to should the matter go to court so I am definitely leaning more towards sending mail than not! Sorry getting garbled as am a bit sleepy!

I don't see how replying to him is actually documenting his bullying (you'll need proof of this from his texts/emails/letters, not a reply from you). Ignore him because I think it'll go to court anyway as it doesn't appear he'll back down unless things go pear-shaped with his GF.

If you have to reply just say that you will not be discussing this further until you have received some legal advice.

Sorry to sound harsh but don't give him any more gratification that he's getting to you. I suspect as a bully he'll be hoping he can get you to agree with this by bombarding you with it until you give in (or compromise without legal advice) just to make it go away.

Good luck

Opps that should be have

Good points Ilovedusty.

What security does he have for the children in Australia? would they be at the mercy of his new girlfriend's whim really? and her children would always be prioritised. What would happen if you threw four children together suddenly and schoker, they fought and fought! Would 2 have to go?! which two???

With the email communication.. unless the texts and emails actually contain personal insults and threats, then the courts won't care, won't read them probably.

The best bet is to make sure that he has NOTHING to show the judge. DOn't reply to him. Don't communicate with him now unless it's something concrete that needs to be communicated. Such as that you are going to go to court to seek order that children NOT be removed from the UK.

Don't ever give him the heads up of your plans in emails. Sorry I'm repeating myself now.

Don't ever give him ammunition to hand the judge. The judge won't really give a shit. He'll just see pages and pages of acrimony zipping back and forth between you.

Make sure that the insults and threats are ENTIRELY one-sided!

I learnt some of this stuff the hard way! I wasn't born as clever as I am now

Morning ladies. Thx again for all your posts. You are right I do not know what the set up will be in Aus. I don't know where in Aus he will live or what type of property or where the girls will sleep. I don't know whether he will take six weeks of work.. if he has a job and whether he will expect his parents (who I understand he wants to accompany the kids to Aus) will look after the kids while he is at work (not sure this classes as quality time with the absent parent!). So far as his partner is concerned the DDs have spent a good amount of time with her and her kids in the UK and get on with them. The DDs keep in touch via web cam when they are with my ex. My ex did once threaten to bring DD1 home when she was naughty! He can't do that from Aus!

Am hearing all the comments re the e-mail and don't intend to do anything yet... will wait for the court docs.

Thanks ladies... you are so supportive.

Sorry .. have just re-read and that all sounded v confusing. My DDs keep in touch with ex's new partner and her kids via webcam (they are in Aus) when DDs are with my ex!

Right. Must get on with some household duties... or perhaps a little mumsnet surfing and a cuppa first! xx

Good evening everyone. Just thought I'd keep you posted of the never ending bullying campaign from ex. He is now sending a barrage of e-mails to demand that I let the children ring him and his family whenever they want. To be honest, in the time since he left they have hardly ever asked to speak to him. He rings approx once a week and sees them every other weekend. It is my view that he should ring.... He was the one that left.... does that seem unreasonable? I am certainly not incurring the expense of them ringing when he emigrates to Aus! It just feels like I am trapped in my own house with him calling the shots on everything. I am just ignoring and not responding to any communication. I am still awaiting the court docs.... probably any day now. xxx

I would be tempted to email a simple one liner saying:

"The children already telephone you whenever they wish to speak with you. I see no need to further complicate this arrangement which currently works perfectly well between you and them".

Or just ignore if you don't want to get into a slanging match.

As for costs.

Reasonable costs for tickets for 2 adults (Grandparents) and 2 children from Australia would be in the $7500 range. That's just over 4000 quid (sorry no pound sign on an Australian Laptop) on today's exchange rate.

When he realises how much it will cost he might start singing a different tune.

My experience of children that age is that the parent needs to do the ringing, because although the children will (mostly) talk on the phone to the other parent, they are highly unlikely to ask to talk to the other parent on their own accord. If he only rings them once a week that's a little feeble really. When dh and I were separated we had 50:50 access, and the parent without the children rang in to say good night every evening. Sometimes that's really all it was too, a five mins "night night I love you", and often ds in particular really didn't much want to talk (he's not a keen on the phone person).

I think you probably do need to reply to this one, just to make sure that you are never seen as blocking contact. But I'd just say in a really non confrontational way that he is welcome to ring at between x and x time - giving whatever time is convenient to you and works with the children's routine. Then make sure that you have number recognition on your phone, so that you can get the children to pick up the phone and you don't have to be involved (my children really enjoyed this).

Actually, yes, I agree with nooka.

I would suggest emailing and saying "The children are free to telephone you whenever they wish. Additionally, please feel free to telephone them between x and x any day of the week".

You will then look like the reasonable one and it may take the wind out of his sails.

Thx for your post Ozziegirly. I have used some of your wording and am presently composing an e-mail. I am still not sure whether to enter into communication with him tho as he seems to go off on one! x

Hi Allets. Yep, it is going cost him in flights but he doesn't seem to care. He is going to pay in travel a few grand short of what he pays me in maintenance for the whole year for the kids! Wanker! Sorry... it is far too early to start swearing!

Hi Nooka. Thanks so much for all your points. I can count on one hand when they asked to ring him and it normally goes to his voice mail anyway. I am concerned that he will have his parents/family just ring constantly when he goes to Aus and although I agree that contact is important I don't like feeling terrorised in my own home. I don't ever speak to him when he rings but just look at the called ID and hand it over! The bedtime ringing thing is a good idea but wouldn't work with my DDs... it would prompt too many questions and be unsettling but I am happy that he rings around tea time...which is normally what he does. So, as has been mentioned, the arrangement works just fine.

I think he is bullying me and just keeping up the torrent of e-mails to cause distruption and set out his stall for court. Thanks again. x

Well to be honest my children never rang/asked to ring me when they were with their dad, and vice versa. We just agreed that that was what would happen, unless it was difficult (evening events at work etc). I just think for this little time I'd be wanting to look incredibly reasonable and lovely, so as to make sure that your ex's unreasonableness is as obvious as possible. Also keep a diary of contact, so that you can show how it really works right now.

I do empathise with how you are feeling - my dh tried to persuade me that we could go on with joint care arrangements when he moved to Canada (utterly insane and unworkable as he acknowledges now). It was horrible even thinking about it.

I'm still convinced that it won't come to much in the end. It really sounds like he is screwing with you.

I just can't see him stumping up all of that money for a start. Or convincing his parents to fly over with them, that's no picnic I can assure you. Or looking after them for six weeks. Or convincing his GF to have your dc in her home, it's not like it will be the school holidays here.

If you do decide to reply in writing then I'd say between x & x time on y days as we will probably be home on those days most weeks.

I think he's just trying to control the situation and floundering because you're ignoring him!