Help!!!! Father demanding access in Australia

[looneymum]

Hello. I am distraught. I am newly divorced and my ex is soon to emmigrate to Australia. I have two DDs aged 7 and 5. Me and my ex do no communicate other than e-mail. My girls are reluctant to see their father although I have provided him with generous access. His emmigration has been on the cards for some time and particularly the DD1 has said she does not wish to visit him when he goes. I have told her that she does not have to if she doesn't want to. I have now received an e-mail from him, saying I am to expect a solicitors letter and that I am to let the children visit. He says that we should work together to make them visit him. This is the horror of a father who has left us with nominal maintenance and who refused to carry on paying for the private schooling he insisted they have prior to him leaving me. I am beside myself. I have no more money to pay for solicitors to fight this monster and only want the best for my children. If they were happy to go I would support it but should I just ignore their wishes and make them go? xxxx

Good evening lovely ladies. Thanks for all your posts. Do you know what the really bizarre thing is? He has always rang once a week and it has always worked absolutely fine. I am sure he is paving the way for saying that I am unreasonable. He rang last night. Usual story. The kids can't remember what they did at school or even whether they have been to school (early onset dementia just like their mummy!). They speak for five mins then say they love him then say goodbye. I am not sure what he wants from them. I think he is trying to salve his own concience as it is obvious that the relationship will change when he emigrates... no physical contact, breaking up web cam etc. Anyway... no court docs yet... ! xx

Can you investigate getting skype or whatever it's called where you speak via the computer and I think you can use a handset?

Hi CG. Yep I will have to look into skype. I understand from eldest DD that ex intends to give the kids his laptop which is good as mine is a netbook and he would look the size of a postage stamp on my cam and it has rubbish speakers!

Maybe his solicitor asked him how often he had contact, and then said/implied that speaking with them once a week was not very often/not the sign of a very involved parent.

The phone calls sound absolutely normal - my two were very much like that - sometimes d just get a "night night" from my ds (although dd was always more chatty).

We have Skype to talk to my sister and her children (they moved to Oz about six months ago). I don't like it very much personally, and the children although initially excited soon drifted off. Some families swear by it though. Having a headset seems to make quite a bit of difference (I prefer the phone).

Skype can work quite well- my dd talks to her dad often like this (he is living in Oz too). It's good that they can chit chat and keep a relationship up.

Morning ladies. Yes, I am hopeful that skype will do the trick although I must admit I don't know a thing about it. As my ex has as yet not bothered to let me know when he intends to emigrate (sometime between now and March 2010!) I don't think I need to worry about it just yet!

Nooka - I think you are probably right that he is trying to step up the phone contact to strengthen his case. I just can't get out of my head how unreasonable it is to ask for the DDs for six weeks (on specific dates) with no compromise just a demand that this is when he wants them and that he has been advised he will "win" in court. It is bizarre. Ok - the washing machine is calling to me..... and the dishwasher... and the iron....!

looney - I'm an aussie about to move back home with my dh (a brit) and our 2 kids. I strongly suggest you go online and have a look at form 47SP (the form him and gf would have to fill out for him to move, unless he's being sponsered via a work permit by a company). Obviously I don't know the details of their relationship but getting the permit is by no means a walk in the park, and involves some fairly serious promises by gf. It can also take about 6 months to process including med checks, statutory declarations from aussies who know you etc. May give you a view as to how "real" his intents actually are?

Hi Milkmade. Thanks for that. His GF is Australian and is out there now with her kids...does that make a difference? He has previously asked me for DDs passports and to give them a medical for his visa. I did not hand over the passports but I believe they did have the medical. He has not asked me for further stuff for his visa application and does keep changing the dates he is going, making me think he is struggling with the application. He is an accountant by trade... and believe he has quite some money behind him... mostly the settlement I should have got and a more reasonable maintenance for the DDs... still that's another story! I wonder if he will get married when he goes out...or perhaps he did get married when he visited a few weeks ago... would any of these things hold weight? Thx again.

Google "Australian Partner Migration"and you get the online booklet (all 51 pages) on what they want - basically you need to prove you are in an ongoing LT relationship. Definition of a de facto relationship for these purposes is
"a mutual commitment to a shared life to the exclusion of all others"
"genuine and continuine relationship"
"they live together and do not live separately and apart on a permenant basis" and
"the relationship has continued for the period of 12 months immediately preceeding the date of application"
(note periods of "dating"are not generally considered to count towards the 12 months.) But as I said, look at the information online - there's a lot there and it's better than relying on potted summaries from internet strangers

Hi Milkmade. Yep.. that makes riviting reading! I imagine he must qualify or else he wouldn't bother making such a song and dance about what he wants in terms of getting our DDs out there. Still it is strange that he hasn't asked for passports/birth certs again... the plot thickens!

looneymum it just occured to me that you have nothing to lose by ignoring him and letting it go to court.

He is demanding x y z so the worst that can happen is that he is given what he has demanded!!!

I would let it go to court and represent yourself (so no cost and FNF will help/advise you on how)

Something to mention is not only do they need quality holiday time with their mum but additionally they will need time to recover from jet leg before they are able to enjoy that time and/or return to school!

So he can have them for a week at Easter hols, a few day to recover and few days with you. Similarly in the summer a few weeks out there, a few days to recover and then a few weeks with you.

Just start writing a long list of all the objections that there so establish what is in there best interests. Surely 2 visits per year one of a week and one of 2 weeks (increasing to 3 when they are older) would be in there best interests?

I've been reading with horror - I'm so sorry your X is being such a grade A git .

My only thought on the girls going for just a week is jet lag - work sent me economy to Singapore one time for a week and I was only just starting to function normally by the time I left. IIRC the rule of thumb is a day of recovery for every hour of time difference. It might be worth seeing if there's anything "official" out there on this as if there is then I can't see how anyone would consider it a reasonable request for your girls to go to Oz and back within a 2 week holiday from school as the poor things would be on jet lag for nearly all of the holiday and/or the start of the new term.

I did remember after I posted that of course he can come over to the UK to see them at least twice a year surely

Hi Tangle. Thx so much for your post and kinds words! My ex is actually after the DDs for six week in the summer. My reasonable propoosal is that he comes back from Aus and sees them for the summer break perhaps three weeks (they have never been away from me for longer than 2 so perhaps that can be seen as a compromise on my part). I maintain that I do not believe it is in their best interests to go to the otherside of the world for six weeks. I would like to spend time with them in the hols, they will want to see their friends, my family just relax and of course I will need to sort all the uniform stuff! As you so, what about the jet lag... DD2 is 5 and spends most of her time absolutely knackered anyway. If you add a different time zone into the works she will be in a terrible state. I don't believe he cares and just says loads of kids make the journey. He just wants what he wants and then I imagine wont see them for the next 46 weeks of the year! Tosser.... ooo sorry... too early again for a swear! xxx

Hi Cargirl

Thx for your messages.

Have just read my posts and must apologise for the typos... need a cuppa!

For the moment I have decided to ignore his e-mails. It has come to me that since he left the DDs have had to have overnight stays in three different locations, as he keeps moving. He is just about to move again so that will make four. I am not sure that is reasonable and offering stability - although I imagine that is my job and he can just do as he wishes. I have been searching the internet for stuff about fathers who emigrate and leave their kids and there just doesn't seem to be anything. I so just want to do the right thing and feel that for now they must have stability. I have managed to keep the DDs in the same house and same school... all these things have come at an enormous financial cost to me .... will the courts rule I am unreasonable? I wish I knew! x

It certainly won't look that great on him I'm sure.

Just keep writing that list.

Perhaps you can offer the compromise that he pays for all of you to go over and stay at a nearby resort and he can see them for some of it

He is a complete idiot isn't he.

Just to keep you posted ladies. Ex has now sent a "compromise" e-mail to ask if I would be happier if the DDs visited Aus for three weeks for xmas in 2011 or four weeks in summer 2011 (rather that the 6 weeks demanded previously). Obviously it is difficult to make a judgement as to whether it will be in their best interests at that time but I still think he is looking at taking me to court and needs to look like he is kind, caring and compromising. Any pearls? x

He's playing that old game of "would you like to clear the table or load the dishwasher?" knowing full-well that neither are desirable. But that you will feel that you have to pick one option.

Just breathe..... and ignore. If you have to reply, then just say that your position on the matter remains un-changed; you feel that they are far to young to make such a journey without you, but that you will discuss it as an option when they are older. In the meantime, of course, you are keen that he maintains contact by visiting them over here.

And repeat, ad nauseam, until he GETS THE BLOODY MESSAGE.

Hi Clam. Thanks for your post... very funny... yep a rotten choice! I have asked a solicitor on the internet what she thinks my chances are and she reckons that, with the right judge on the right day in the right court, I may be ordered to send them to Aus for three weeks as a compromise! Most distressing to think he has a chance and that I will go through court hell. I have decided I will try a fob off e-mail in a few days, just saying I am considering it. Then, I will say that I support them they visiting him in Aus, in the future. I wonder if I can get away with leaving it at that!! Thanks again.

Hi Looneymum, he just won't leave you alone will he?? How can you be expected to agree to something happening in 2011 right now?? Its ridculous!!

Clam is spot on- you can show you are not being unreasonable by saying you are willing to reconsider when the girls are older but your current position remains unchanged and that you are happy for him to have contact with them over here.

He is trying to get you to commit to something that is not reasonable.

Please don't let him use the court thing as a weapon to stop you sticking up for what you know is right. The courts have a duty to do what is right for the children.

The internet lawyer was most probably just trying to let you know that there is always a slim chance of them asking you to let the girls visit him in Aus. Lawyers are like that, they have will never give you a black and white answer - because on the day there is a slim chance of it going his way. However, I and so many others on here feel really confident that that chance is really tiny - tiny enough for you to go for it if you have to.

And whatever you do, don't say (or write) anything that he can construe as agreeing. Otherwise you'll also have to contend with "but you agreed. You're reneging on the deal." in addition to all the other crap.

Hi Wheresmypaddle. He is such a bully. His last e-mail even pointed out to me how old the DDs would be in 2011.... bizarre - as if I wouldn't know!

I know I must stick to my guns but am sure he has been told by a solicitor to make some sort of compromise which as everyone says is totally unreasonable. I think then he will feel more able to put it in front of a judge and show himself to be the kind caring father (NOT!) By 2011, unless he comes over here to visit, he will be a stranger apart from a bit of webcam which I am sure the girls will soon get sick of!

Thanks Clam. Yes I will need to be really careful about what I say with regard to the visit in 2011. He has also said he wants whatever is agreed to be put in a court order! How on earth I can agree to that when there are so many variables.

Thanks so much ladies.

looney - honestly, I think there is no way that a court would order you to send them to Australia without you. Really.

Plus, apart from anything else how does he think he is going to bring the case once he is over there?

Ignore ignore ignore.

Just a thought- sorry if this wrong but I have a feeling that you almost have a image in your mind of your bullying XH, plus an expensive solicitor(s) somehow making you seem wrong if this were to go to court.

This is not a realistic scenario - just because he has expensive, expert advice does not make him right. The facts are the facts, a court will listen to these facts, and just because your points will not come via an expensive solicitor does not make them any less valid.

The image you should have in your mind is this man grabbing at straws and trying to scare you into agreeing to something not currently in the best interest of your DDs. He wants this badly hence the solicitor and threat of court.

Sit tight (easy for me to say I know), hold your nerve, don't hand him ammunition, believe in yourself, try not to let let him scare you with court threats.

Hi Queen of FE and WheremyPaddle

You are right, I must sit tight. Just by way of background I have been horribly stung by the legal system surrounding the finances. I have never known of a case where a stay at home mum with a high earning work away husband could be left with so little yet the courts (and my shite solicitor) deemed this acceptable. I feel like I have set my own personal precedent! Hence the fear that he will once again lie and have a hot shot barrister at court that will make mincemeat of what is right and good. My only salvation is that in matters concerning children the courts must have a wholly different role.

You are all so kind in taking the time to respond to my never ending tales of woe.

Me and the kids have had a great weekend, they are such good fun kids and I am truly very lucky... and a bit tired!

Thanks again. xx