Help!!!! Father demanding access in Australia

[looneymum]

Hello. I am distraught. I am newly divorced and my ex is soon to emmigrate to Australia. I have two DDs aged 7 and 5. Me and my ex do no communicate other than e-mail. My girls are reluctant to see their father although I have provided him with generous access. His emmigration has been on the cards for some time and particularly the DD1 has said she does not wish to visit him when he goes. I have told her that she does not have to if she doesn't want to. I have now received an e-mail from him, saying I am to expect a solicitors letter and that I am to let the children visit. He says that we should work together to make them visit him. This is the horror of a father who has left us with nominal maintenance and who refused to carry on paying for the private schooling he insisted they have prior to him leaving me. I am beside myself. I have no more money to pay for solicitors to fight this monster and only want the best for my children. If they were happy to go I would support it but should I just ignore their wishes and make them go? xxxx

Looneymum have just read this thread- what a terrible time you are having. I agree with those saying he is bullying and threatening you with the court action.

I am sure he keeps threatening you with this because he is hoping you will give in to what he wants rather than put up a fight.

If you don't agree (and IMO you should stick to your guns) he may well keep to his threat and hire an expensive lawyer to try to get what he wants- because he can afford it, because he sounds like a bully and because he wants his own way.

I really don't think he would win, especially while the children are so young. I know you want to be sure of this but noone can be sure until the court makes its decision- however, the definite tone on here is that he would not get his own way.

Of course representing yourself sounds terrifying but you do not need an expensive lawyer to state your case because you are in the right. The court will only want to hear the facts and will be very sympathetic towards you.

Your exH is doing this because he wants to convince himself that he is in the right. You know he is wrong, I know he is wrong, everyone else on here knows he is wrong.......

You can do this if you have to. In the meantime do not give him any ammunition to use against you (I am not suggesting that you have but its so easy to say / write things in haste that can be used later), and continue to show that you do not want to stand in the way of his relationship with DC, only that its the long haul trip you know is not in their best interests.

You need to email your ex back saying something like you are happy to work with him to help him maintain his relationship with DCs, but you are not going to agree to them visiting Australia at the current time as this is not in their best interests, and if he insists on taking this to court you then you will be willing to explain your point of view to that court.

Sorry if this was rambling and i have just told you stuff you already know but I hate to hear of this bullying behaviour towards someone who is simply doing their best for their children.

Hi WheresmyPaddle. Thanks so much. It is so very helpful to know that I am not going mad and shouldn't give in to his bullying demands but as you say, stick to my guns and do what is right for the girls. It may well be that I have to concede to them spending some time in Aus but for the moment I think I will let him hang himself with the request that he has them there for six weeks....I cannot believe this is acceptable. My "not yet sent" e-mail to him sets out that the best interests of the girls is that contact be in the UK whilst they are young. I am sure I am being reasonable but of course I am always doubting everything I do.... just so much stress and worry! Thanks again. x

How about you c&p your email onto this thread first, and let people here help you tweak it? It might give you more confidence that you are on the right lines and not digging a hole for yourself.

Thx BofF....Ok... here is proposed e-mail to ex. All comments gratefully received!

Dear Fuck Wit Twunt (ok am not actually putting that bit in!)

Firstly, I find the tone of your email to be aggressive, bullying and threatening. There is absolutely no need to take this tone and I ask that you consider this in any future correspondence.

Secondly, I do not believe your proposal to be reasonable. I have set out my reasons for this in my previous email and I refer you to this.

Thirdly, this is not a situation I consider anyone can "win". This is about the welfare and best interests of our children. I cannot therefore reconsider my position as I believe that would not be in their best interests.

I have, since our separation, actively facilitated the generous contact you have with the children. I will continue to do that and firmly believe the best interests of the children are served by arranging that contact in the UK while they are still so young. As I stated in my earlier e-mail, it may well be they can make the trip to Australia when they are older.

Put that in your f**ing pipe and smoke it (obviously not putting that bit in either!)

I like it- I wish you could leave the rude bits in though

tbh i doubt any court judge would allow you to stick two very young children on a massive flight journey unsupervised just because your ex has chosen to migrate so far. if he really wanted regular access i doubt he would have moved to the other end of the world!

Hi BofF. I can just imagine sending it in a hurry and leaving the rudey bits in.... ha ha lol lol lolly!! Glad you like it. Since this horror has begun I feel my writing skills have dramatically improved as I have had to put together so many politically correct and noncontentious mails. He, conversely appears to be unable to spell. A friend recently said to me.."What are you going to say to fuck face when he next speaks to you?" I said I intend to say "i before e except after c"!!! xx

Hi Beth. Thanks for your post. I so hope you are right. Perhaps we could just cut and paste this whole message and put it in front on the judge... should it go that far!

On a lighter note ladies, I am having a bit of lovely therapy at the moment, sorting through the DDs artwork and cards and letters from years gone by... ah.. they are so sweet. Unfortunately tho, I need to condense into a small box of keep sakes or else I will have to move house to accommodate all the stuff! xx

I wasn't aware that an 'emmigrated' parent had any rights of visitation, international law and all that.

Hi Posie... tell me more.. tell me more... this would be a great twist! x

Perhaps you can think about offering him contact that you think best serves your dc interest.

Every half term, a week at school Easter holidays and 2 weeks in the summer, twice weekly web cam chats?

I think it would be good to show that you are willing to give him regular contact it's not your fault that he's going to have to do such a long journey in order to fulfill it. Also keep reitterating that anything more than 2 weeks away from their primary carer is too long for such young children.

Perhaps you need to point out that once he emigrates and it's the school summer holidays he won't have seen them at all for x months which is a long time in their eyes.

Thx CarGirl. Good points. I sort of don't think he is interested in anything other than a long stint with the DDs as otherwise he will have to make far too much effort! I am getting the feeling that it is ok for them to go through the horror of the journey out to Aus but he isn't coming back any time soon. Of course I could be wrong. He can, of course, see them in the UK if he returns, whenever he likes, subject to it fitting in with our plans. Thx for your post. x

I would think that UK courts can only govern people IN the UK, not Fathers that have pissed off to the other side of the world to live. How can they enforce it? They can?t even enforce maintenance.

How would your dcs even get to see him? Fly alone? Fly with you?

Well it's clear he is only interested in having them for the 6 weeks of his choosing but that's not going to happen is it?

Are the dc going to continue to his parents in the UK once he emigrates? Otherwise he's suggesting that distant type relatives look after his children in a new place (not their home) for 6 weeks and do a long journey with them, bizarre???

When your dc do eventually go out to Australia for a visit just ensure that you pack the bare minimum that they need and warn him that he will need to organise a shopping trip to get them kitted out in approriate attire for their stay otherwise it could cost ££££££££££.

He's choosing to leave their habitual domicile. How does he think you are going to pay for all these flights and solicitors? You are within your rights to insist access is in the UK I'm fairly sure of that.

Does he suggest you send your kids unacompanied half way round the world/?

also, if he gets them to Australia, he might be able to keep them there and you might have to fight an australian court to get them back.. and legal aid mightn't fund that. So just say N O.

I have a lot of sympathy with you, because I live with my children in Ireland and their father in the UK (who was extremely abusive, verbally, financially and physically) pays us NO maintenance. Not a red cent. And Yet he is outraged that I don't take the children to see their english family.

He can see them when he comes here. That's it. Luckily, despite some to-ing and fro-ing of solicitors letters, he has no rights to make me take the children to UK.

Hi Posie and CarGirl. He is suggesting that his parents take them to Aus. No sure about that idea as his parents aren't in the best of health... the DDs do spend a lot of time with them tho as he tends to f off to work whilst saying he is looking after them and leaves them with his parents. His parents feed them with crap til they are sick.... do I sound bitter! I'm really not but just want some stability.... poor little souls... the sooner he goes the better. Thx for your posts.

Right must be off to do school pick up and ready my sparklers! We are going to have bonfire tea which means sausage and chips stacked up in jaunty way to look like bonfire! Obviously ketchup for flames! Talk in a bit. xx

looneymum, as my friend used to say about her ex..."don't get on the rollercoaster." Your ex is trying (and succeeding) to push your buttons and you are visibly letting him. The very very best thing you could do is just ignore him. Don't send any emails. Don't respond to his bullying. He is looking for a reaction, so don't give him what he wants!! Isn't that why you are no longer married to him, because you don't want to keep giving him what he wants. It won't be easy, but it will be very effective to ignore him. And who knows what he really will end up doing. Let him rant and let him promise your dd's. All you need to do is kindly set the scene for your dd's that it might not all end up exactly as daddy has promised (so that they won't be too disappointed). Don't make it nasty and don't make it something that they are going to take back to him. Just ignore ignore ignore. (Isn't that the advice you would give your dd's if a nasty kid was bullying them at school?)

As several have advised you, the outcome in court is more than likely to be a reasonable outcome that you would be happy with. So, just wait until the courts set a date and don't react in any way to your ex before then. You also don't want to let him know what your court strategy is going to be.)

Haven't read the whole thread, but if the children were born and have lived in the UK for the last year then their habitual domicile is the UK. Right?

No WAY can he force you to pay for the children to leave their habitual domicile for his convenience. He is having a larf!!

I agree with SofiaAmes.

You no longer need to get into an email volley with him. It's not about "letting him know that you know that what he wants isn't a real threat". That's point-scoring, which is pointless. It might just throw another bucket of petrol onto the fire.

For now, you're better off letting him think you're sweating. That's his real intention. If he thinks he's making you sweat, he'll be delighted and he won't be watching his back so carefully. He'll think this fight is going to be easily won. Play the part he's cast you in. The easily threatened and basically clueless about the law little wifey.

If you play this part he won't be thinking of other ways to make you sweat.

Just let him believe you're sweating. But behind the scenes, you're lining up your ducks.

I'm liking the craftiness, ladies, v.good...

Just another factor to add to your case.

It will be middle of winter there during our August hols (doesn't really apply to Western or Northern Australia though as their winter is like a mild summer in the UK). So your DC's will miss out on summer every year.

Hi Maggie M. Thx for your messages. He doesn't expect me to pay but is happily flaunting the fact that he can pay for the kids his parents and perhaps himself to fly back and forward... tosser... anyway... I think I agree with your sentiment about the e-mail volley. You are right about the point scoring. He does indeed think everything is a game and will never lose... I think I will keep quiet and let him wonder what's going on. His threat is that if he doesn't hear from me by Friday he will instigate proceedings... wanker...! Sorry, I don't believe I swore at all until this grim mess! xx

Thx SDR. Yep he hasn't bothered telling the kids it will be winter in Aus and too cold to go in the pool cause that would spoil the illusion he is creating! The other thing is I was planning on a little holiday in the summer hols for us... don't know when I am expected to fit that in as he wants them for six weeks.... arse! xxx

Hi Sofia. Thx for your post. Yep I am deffo coming around to the idea of complete silence. This was how I had always played it in the past as he is well up for a fight and I just get really upset and worried. The funny thing is, I haven't actually physically spoken to him for nearly two years... all the abuse is via text, e-mail and solicitors letter. I did, of course, have to sit across the table from him at the court hearing and listen to his barrister lying on his behalf.

No problem looneymum, it's such a stressful time, but it does settle down...

Complete silence is an excellent tactic for several reasons. He no longer knows exactly what you're thinking, and so, can't plan his next moves accordingly. Also, by not communicating with him it sends out an insulting message to him. It is really quite dehumanising to be totally ignored. I know my x has found that more frustrating than anything I could EVER say to him!

The 'flaunting' wealth thing really strikes a chord with me. Over a year ago, my x's solicitor sent a letter to me, and the gist of it was that my x 'didn't want to have to go to court to order me back to the uk, but if I persisted in ignoring his very reasonable entreaties to do the right thing blah blah.... The letter stated in a really condescending way that 'my client's x lives with her parents depended on their charity and on benefits"!!!! It was such a horrible MOCKING letter.

But my solicitor was great. He reassured me that poor is not negligent. The support of maternal grandparents is seen as a GOOD thing, and, he's just put down on paper that he's left me in the position of having to claim benefits etc because he's not contributing!!

So, my solicitor wrote back saying that the two children were happily settled in to school, ballet, extra curricular and were enjoying getting to know their cousins and life by the sea and near the mountains in the community their mother had grown up in... but if his client felt he had a chance of winning, then see you in court where we will sort out maintenance.

My X's solicitor must have got that letter and said look buddy, not only are you never going to win a court order to have those children ordered back to the uk, but you're advertising the fact that you're not contributing anything to their welfare!!

Get a good solicitor, one with experience of these complicated matters. A few solicitors I saw, CAB provided one at one point, just to advise me, he hadn't a clue..

Hi Maggie. Wow there are some horrors around. The thing is, I spent an absolute fortune (equivalent of deposit on small house) and got hot shot lawyer ... he was shite... I got in settlement just slightly more than I spent in fees! I am afraid I will have to represent myself should it go to court although I am slightly concerned about the order for costs thing should he by some fluke win the case! Just a little something else to worry about eh! x