I am really really fighting against the urge to leave

[FabBakerGirlIsBack]

This was last night

This morning 8 year old answered me back and was rude every time he spoke to me. I asked him not to do something and he immediately did and then back chatted when I said about it, finishing off with sticking his leg out to trip up his sister on her scooter.

He has refused to speak to me whenever I have talked to him on the way to school, pulled away when I said bye, complained about me seeing his sister to the door and also said he wants to live somewhere else.

I know I am doing everything wrong and have no idea what to do as I was brought up in foster care and all my instincts have been squashed with just wanting my kids to have a better life than I did.

DH asked if he could get an au pair as we need help with the kids but we can't afford it, I don't see how it would help unless I could get an older lady who would be like a mother figure to me too; and they would behave for her and not be anyway.

I am so that I am expecting my kids to just get how I am and help me.

Hi ~ I don't know your whole story but we all lose our way a little when the dcs are going through a phase of being badly behaved ~it's not just you!

Don't feel a failure and feel guilty just be calm,nice and act like the cool professional mum you want to be.
If your behaviour is exemplary,and you are kind and consistent,they will honestly grow up fine~they are allowed a few phases on the way.

Try to detach yourself a little bit emotionally so their behaviour doesn't make you feel bad,you carry on acting the same no matter what is going on iyswim?

If your youngest is 4 you are eligible for Homestart and they are often mother figures[I am one myself]and very normal.

You can ring them direct,it is not connected to SS and they match you with a volunteer to help with your current needs.

I had home start a few years ago and when I asked them to come again last year they said they couldn't help me.

I feel resentful but don't really want to think what about. at me.

Fab yesterday's thread is very normal, stuff like that happens in families up and down teh country, mine included.

This morning DD came into the kitchen whining "DS1 hit me"

I went into the room, DS1 hissed "it was an accident and I said sorry". DD said "yes it was an accident, he did say sorry, but it hurt"

SO WHY COME CRYING TO ME? YOU'RE 10 FGS!!

Re your 8yo, if I were you, I would (and have done this with my dd) get him alone, even take him to a cafe/for a walk just the two of you, and say soemthing like "look, we aren't being very n ice to each other at hte mo. You're doing ABC and I'm doing XYZ. Its making us boht unhappy so lets both make a BIG effort not to do these things and to be nicer to each other", then go on to rewards his good behaviour and turn a blind eye to the small stuff.

We are in a vicious circle and it is all my fault.

Dh and I have other stuff going on so are stressed under the surface.

It is times like this that I really feel I should not have had kids as I am just not up to it. I don't know what normal is as I never had a normal upbringing.

Irony is I was a brilliant nanny.

Your 8 year old sounds just like mine at the moment. I have blown up at mine about 3 times so far this week.

8 year olds are cheeky.
Siblings fight.
Siblings hurt each other.

That is all normal and NOT YOUR FAULT.

Now - although all of that is normal there needs to be sanctions for your 8 year old. Mine was threatened with early bed last night with no dinner if he continued to cheek me. He knew I meant it.

Have you read the book '123 Magic - Effective Discipline for Kids' (I think that is what it is called). It was recommended on here to me years ago and I found it very good for giving me a strategy to help me keep my temper.

Could you do a parenting course?

How does your DH discipline the children?

I think that you need to realise that you are a good mum. Disciplining the DCs won't mean that they don't love you. Lots of people discipline in different ways - you need to find what works for you.

What are your instincts to do when your 8 year old is cheeky? Mine is to shout. So I do. Some people would say that that is wrong (including my DH!) but that is what I was brought up with. I do try not to but I don't beat myself up if I lose it. I think it is good for DS to see me lose the plot sometimes. He knows I still love him.

I would want to shout, answer back, throw something, leave. All the time knowing I should just walk away and ignore him but not being able to see how that teaches him it is wrong if I just do and say nothing.

I don't think you're doing anything wrong, Fab; I think it's his age.

My 9yo is apparently going through his teens atm and it started when he was 8. The latest is that I am not to speak English when we are out and about because I have an accent (very slight as it so happens) and besides, people will understand what I say and that will embarrass him. Because everything I do and say at the moment is like totally embarrassing.

I don't think it's anything I've done wrong: I think it's him being bloody annoying.

So lots of sympathy, manly handshakes or whatever- one day we will get through this phase. Perhaps we will have civilised teens.

Re Homestart,that is different to our policy here ~ and needs change all the time...if they come back to assess you and you say you are struggling with your parenting of the two dcs together and being consistent and calm,they should,I would have thought, come back.
So it would be worth trying again if things have changed.

You are right that you can't ignore the bad behaviour because he does need to learn what is right and what is wrong. That's fine. What you seem to feel is that every time he or any of the others kicks off or is cheeky or whatever that it is your fault for being a bad mum. It's not your fault. It is normal. Children do that.

You need to accept that this will happen. Sometimes on and off all day and you will want to kill them all (figuratively speaking of course!).

What you need to decide is how you handle it when it happens. Decide on sanctions and carry them through. No TV. No Playstation. Whatever works for your family. We still do time out too.

It just dawned on me. I have a completely skewed idea of what normal and real life is like as I never had that as a child.

I hate my mother so much at the moment.

just a quicky fab before I go out - DH had a bad upbringing and he just does the opposite of what his parents did, he's a great dad!

That is what is making it so hard for you, isn't it, Fab. I was fortunate to grow up in a very strong family where we all drove our parents up the wall as a part of normal, healthy family life, and there was a huge extended family around for further reference material. So I am far more likely to be blase about infuriating behaviour (ah yes, that is just like cousin so-and-so, he grew up all right in the end). Whereas for you, it must be much harder, because you will always be tempted to look for a cause within yourself. I am sure you are doing a great job! But it's bloody hard work - even with the best of backgrounds. I know my mother (who came from a very good happy family herself) went around muttering "I will never rear that child, I will never rear that child"- that was about me, and I have grown up reasonably ok, and on excellent terms with her.

Sanctions are our problem at the minute as nothing seems to bother him enough and he also doesn't seem to remember the time he missed out on x because he behaved y.

MamaG - My father has had no input at all in my life whereas I was with my mother for a while and apart from not leaving my kids there isn't really anything there to do the opposite with.

I feel like this will never be resolved and will only get harder as I should have some kind of control over my children as they are 8 and under but when they are teenagers it will be a lot harder.

Fab, there is no guarantee that your dcs will still be as difficult when they are teens.

My dd is far more civilised at nearly 13 than she was at 9. I very seldom have to resort to punishments with her because she has a more adult take on life. Ds on the other hand...

And there are times when DS1 is so adorable i want to eat him and he will try and help me and help sort the younger ones out.

Never had him refuse to talk to me or pulled away from a kiss before.

Sanctions are not miracle workers Fab. It will take time. And you will have to alter the sanctions as the children get older. But you just have to be consistent. And keep at it.

I know with DS sending him to bed early would be a nightmare as we would have tears and shouting etc but it would stay in his memory. I haven't had to do it yet. Banning Playstation or TV or computer is another one I use. Time out on the stairs is another.

I am getting sick and tired of DS cheeking me so am about to come down hard on that with time on the stairs for any cheek/attitude. I know it will be ongoing though. I know it will probably be every day. He will eventually get it though.

try not to personalise it, try and be that brilliant nanny again (I'm sure you didn't internalise any of their bad behaviour!). Your ds is being naughty - he is behaving just like other little boys and girls all over the world. He is developing and growing and everything else. It's never easy when you're stressed enough anyway (I felt I had 3 dc this morning - dp winding up the girls acting like a bear with a sore head - was not helping!), but can't emphasise enough how you mustn't think it's a reflection on you.

That's too much of a burden for your dc to carry.

Welcome to the 8 Year Old Club

You'll see from the thread I've linked to that there are loads and loads of us struggling with gobby eight year olds. Tis a mare, so don't take it personally and don't assume it's a reflection on your parenting skills. Too many of us with the same problem for it NOT to be a phase that many of them go through!

you say you were a brilliant nanny so what's different with your own DS? i suspect the difference is that you're taking his behaviour personally as a personal slurr on your own ability and personality... if this is the case you need to step back and try to not get offended by his behaviour, it's not being done to hurt you.

whenever your ds mis-behaves try to go into 'nanny mode' and depersonalise his behaviour if you can.

good luck!

Brilliant advice about trying to get back into nanny-mode. I know it can be hard to calm down an immediate reaction though - I tend to go from nought to ninety in minus ten seconds! That was where I found the '123' book good. Those seconds of counting to 3 gave me a chance to calm down. They might give you a chance to switch to 'nanny' mode instead of 'mummy' mode.

Doodlez - thanks for that link - am off to have a look!

stickylittlefingers - what did you mean by too much of a burden for my kids

Doodlez - will look at the link when DS2 has gone to bed, thank you.

Buda I have dug out my 1-2-3 magic book and will have another read of it. Counting does seem to work, I just don't remember to do it.

Fluffles Brilliant advice about pretending to be the nanny. I only had to look at the kids I looked after and they knew.

It is all skewed with my childhood and them not wanting to be sad.

This morning he even had the cheek to complain that I hadn't ironed his school jumper. Cheeky bugger.

Maybe if he stopped leaving jumpers in his school bag - I pulled out 3 on Tuesday - they would get washed and ironed in time...

Fab - I know what you mean about remembering to do it. I have to admit to forgetting recently myself.

I completely flipped here the other night. We have a dog and I mentioned taking her to the woods for a walk over the weekend. Cue DS whinging. He always seems to whinge whenever I suggest we do something lately so I got a bit crossed and said I was fed up with his attitude. Cue DH saying "well that is what you have trained him to do". !!!!!!!!! I blew my top. No way was I accepting that and no way was I remembering to count to 3!

When you say you don't want your kids to be sad do you mean that you are afraid that they will be sad if you tell them off? They probably will be. But your job is not to be their friend but their mother. And unfortunately making them sad for a little bit is part of that.

I was so unhappy for all most of my childhood that I just want my kids to have happy memories. Not realistic at all. I know this, just can't do it sometimes.

I am sure I am looking to my kids to fix me as I can't fix myself. And for them to do the right thing as I don't know how to get them to do it.

Fab, things about my dcs:

Ds2 hits ds1, ds1 hits back v hard, dsd2 cries the loudest and says ds1 hit him.
dd1 hits and kicks her older dbs and then screams when they hit back.
dd1 hits baby brother, not often but enough for me to go mad
ds1, pulls away from kisses, tells me he hates me, complains about nearly everything.
ds1&2 moan almost daily about not enough time on club penguin. (this is on the pc and brilliant to control my dcs, each chore has a minute on club penguin value)
I recommend a book called how to talk so my children will listen, great stuff.