I'm just reading an interesting German discussion on the English obsession with forcing children to share - apparently this is wrong, wrong, wrong and even to blame for ...

[emkana]

... the recession, as forcing young children to share encourages excessive greed in adulthood.

but seriously, the German consensus is that children should not be forced to share, that they have a right to defend their things and that it's not that children must learn to share, but that children must learn to accept ownership, so as not to demand things that others have. With the argument being that adults are not expected to share their things either, so why should children?

I can kind of see where they are coming from, but for everyday life I would find it very difficult. If ds has a visitor who wants to play with eg his digger, and ds won't let him, and visiting child cries, then I feel I have to enforce that ds shares, because I feel sorry for visiting child and because I want ds to learn empathy. But German viewpoint is that at ds's age you can't expect empathy so shouldn't aim to teach it. So what do you all think?

(I mean, I don't think they ever made me 'share' anything but have probably just forgotten.)

I think the Germans are obsessed with themselves, really. Their own health, their own wants, their own needs. Their conversation is often clunky and deliberate and there is never any of that gorgeous guessing what someone's really getting at that you get with a Brit.

Also it often happens that the stuff to be shared doesn't belong to any of those sharing it. A ride-on car at toddler group, a computer in the classroom, a front row sunbed.

(horrible dawning suspicion that I may actually BE German. Eek. I blame my great-great Grandad!)

(but attempt to cover it up in polite society as am in England...)

Pitchounette "They arrive first, stay there for the day, why are people upthight about it? If you want one, come early!"

No, they don't - they sneak down very early, put a towel on a sunbed, go back to bed & expect the sunbed to be there for them when they want it later

Edam

Hmm, I'm not sure how I feel about this. DD is not yet 2 and her friends are all similar in age an in an ideal world I'm of the 'let them sort it out between themselves' camp, but that only works if the other parents feel the same.

I must admit I do try and enforce sharing but only to save face really, they are too young to understand. The point about why should the possessor be forced to give up their toy just because the other child wants it, when there are plenty of other toys around, is very fair. I think if I have more than one of my own children I will just let them get on with it!

bloody hell ruby, that really is extreme!

Sorry about writing the English, should have put British.

Rabeneltern means "bad parents" but the organizers of the forum use it ironically because Raben (ravens) are apparently very caring with their offspring. It's an attachment parenting forum.

Ruby

Edam, I went out for a meal with the mums from a toddler group, and some german aupairs. after the meal i was the designated calculator to break down the meal and tell each individual what they OWED!! god I hate that, so embarrassing, but that was what was required that night. AFterwards, the germans were very impressed with my calculator skills and one winked at me and said "i zink you are a leetle bit churman no??" I had to laugh at that!!

I think it is really important to learn to share from an early age. If they start before they understand it they do it as a matter of course.
When I went away from home for the first time we were all struck by the fact you could tell the only children-they didn't know how to share and weren't very popular. My best friend was an exception-she had been brought up with cousins who treated her like a sister and wasn't selfish.
Unfortunately not all parents make their DCs share-you can wait for ever for a go on a swing or similar and the parent won't do their duty and tell them they have finished their go and it is the next child's turn.
I think it is a horrible world if it is the survival of the fittest and the strongest get their own way.

That surprises me - a lot of my very good friends have been only children. I completely agree that it's a important life lesson though.

I don't think that you can tell in later life MrsTittleMouse-but it was very obvious at the age of 18yrs when in shared accomodation and they were used to their own space and things. The edges then got knocked off and they learned to share.

I still think that it is wonderful that we queue in Britain and an enormous stink is made if people try to push in.

God I hate the swing hoggers I really do.

I don't get the mentality, I really think a lot of this stems from parents who are just too scared to confront their dc over anything.

I think it's far crueler to not teach kids common decency from a young age as socially they soon learn the lesson anyway- kids don't want to play with selfish kids who don't
share. I do think that 3 year olds who start pre-school able to share have a far easier time of it and make friends far quicker,mine certainly did.

I agree pisces. Queuing is one of the things that makes Britain Great IMO! I love the order and fairness of it...wonderful.

The Germans do lots of things diferently. I lived there for a while - if someone bumped into you (even if they were at fault and not watching where they were going) you were more likely to get a dirty look than an apology. Also, you are much less likely to have some one hold a door open for you in Germany IME. I think I prefer things the way they are here.

The first things that reception classes or nursery classes have to do is teach the DCs to share-they can't do anything constructive until they have learnt how to do it. It is sad that it sometimes gets left to them-it is the parents job.
There are times when a parent just has to remove a screaming DC from a swing (if reasoning and fairness have failed)and say 'I am sorry but that little girl has been waiting and it is her turn'.
If parents can't or won't teach their child to share then the school has to do it. You can't get through life without.(Well you can but you won't have many friends!)

I've never quite understood the claim that we are fantastic at queueing. When I lived in France, I was terribly impressed that at metro stations people standing near the doors got out to let people off the train at busy times. In London you have to more or less push them off the train to get out. And bus queues are like rugby scrums.

Not that that is in any way relevant to the OP.

I think sharing is good.