Unconditional Parenting in a nutshell (I know this is incredibly lazy)

[SuperBunny]

I am embarrassed to do this but I haven't been able to read the book and need some quick Dos and Don'ts til I can get hold of the book again.

I have read some of the old threads but was really hoping that some nice person could give me a couple of bullet points about unconditional parenting.

I will be very grateful.

Thanks Flamingo.
He's 6.
We have the shelf because they would play with toys and not eat, I don't want to clean peanut butter off toys all the time, our kitchen table is not big enough so the cereal boxes also have to go on the shelf.
Swinging is an issue because it could hurt the person he is next to, the jam etc.

We had already talked about it when he waltzed into the kitchen swinging. I suggested the shelf as usual. His solution was the pocket. But it didn't stay there. Then I reminded him two times that swinging things around near the table can cause accidents/hurt people. That was when I wanted to take it off him.

Really Juule. Isn't that a threat? I've never said anything like that.

Have to say I will definitiely look into this, very interesting thread thanks everyone.

my sis did this with her children, did not know then that it was called this, just that there were certain things they just had to do, were expected to do, like help out at meal times, shower and dress themselves, my sis said at the time (they are now all approaching adulthood and are competent, self assured young people) that she wanted them to learn that there are somethings you do because its the right thing to do, not because mummy will say well done or plead with you to do it. Its worked brilliantly. It seemed odd at the time that she would not say, clear the table please...but things like... who's turn is it to clear the table....and she would not say thankyou or well done either, but they would in effect be rewarded cos the quicker these sort of things were done the quicker they got on to doing something fun.

Hmm.....we need some more thinkers, otherside

I guess you need him to eat at that time because of him going to school? Because otherwise, I would assume if they don't want to eat, then they don't need to eat then. But I know if they're off to school then they do need to eat in the morning.

What about sitting down with him when it's not an issue to talk about it?

hubpages.com/hub/10-Principles-of-Unconditional-Parenting

here is a site I just found, listing the main ideas of up.

think i'll head down the library to get a copy of the book

Messy that's actually not what UP or TCS are about - more like How To Talk. Knowing you want stuff done and working out how to make your child do it.

TCS is more about saying 'I want you to help out at mealtimes, you don't want to help, so we need to sit down and explore this whole issue and find a solution so we can all be happy - why do I want you to help, and why don't you want to help?'.

I suppose it is a threat.

But imo it depends how it was intended. If I said to one of my children that they should stop swinging something round because there was a good likelihood they would hurt someone and they kept swinging it because they couldn't help themselves, then I would say that we might have to put it in the bin so that there would be no further temptation - or they could put it to one side until later. I would then ask them what they thought about that. Usually they can see the point of what I'm saying. I have had situations where the child has understood that something was dangerous and after a similar discussion to above had decided for themselves that binning it was the best option.

oh have i missed the point? will hve to do more research then.

This is the first time I have seen this on MN.Ds is 15 and has one friend who has been parented this way and he is also home schooled and at a recent sleepover his behaviour was atrocious in comparison to the other 3.Why is praise wrong if it makes a child feel valued?

Bit sad they only feel valued if they are praised (ie. judged) by someone!

When you say 'parented this way', what do you mean, exactly?

I think, with TCS in particular, but also UP, it's very easy to get the wrong end of the stick, to think that it means 'just let your child do whatever he/she wants whenever he/she wants' and that the parent has to self-sacrifice so their child always gets what he/she wants but it's not. If parents do it that way, it's neglectful.

I would hazard a guess that the parents you are referring too were probably very laissez-faire. The children I know who have 'TCS parents' are actually very lovely, mature, and happy. But I do know some children of 'TCS parents' who've got it a bit wrong, and who run ragged, creating havoc and being rather unpleasant all round!

I would have also said- unless it stays in the pocket I am taking it away/ putting it in a bin (depending on my mood probably)- BUT I think it is a threat...
And if my DS is in a mood as well, this would then happen, followed by screaming/ cryng etc... or on a good day, he would just stop messing about.

Yes some of these things are not IMO negotiable- beacuase much as I don't want to get ready/ go to work etc- I have to.. I don't think that it is too bad to teach the kids that too..

Praise is not wrong if it is used mindfully. It is indiscriminate use of praise purely for the giver's own ends that is wrong among other things.
See my post: Wed 20-May-09 10:57:02

No, not bad to teach them that, but important, IMO, to be open minded that there might be other ways of doing things that suit everyone - like the person who suggested going to sleep dressed to avoid the problem of a battle when the DC wakes.

Not saying that that would work in your situation, but if there is conflict, it's helpful to work out creative ways of avoiding it and especially so when there are non-negotiable areas of your life.

THe non-negotiable bit is the leaving for work on time, not the getting dressed IYSWIM. You can negotiate when/how to get dressed - young children can get dressed in the car when you reach your destination, or even stay pyjamaed if wherever you're going isn't too inappapropriate for that. Or toddlers will often refuse to get dressed, but will agree to wear a dressing up costume, for example.

I agree with Juuule's last post - you could say 'look, it looks like you can't stop playing with that chain when it's in your pocket, and I'm really concerned someone/something is going to get hurt. Can you think up somewhere to put it where you won't feel tempted to play with it? There's the shelf, or leave it in the other room, or I'll take it for you if you like'. Not a threat, just stating that clearly he can't stop playing with it when it's in his pocket.

The only reason I would give the bin or the shelf as options would be because swinging it round was dangerous and my other children have a right to be able to eat without fear of being whacked. If the child with the chain was more imaginative than me and could come up with a better alternative that would keep people safe then that is what we would do.
He would be part of the discussions about what to do but the aim would be to reduce or get rid of the danger to others.

Yes flamingo- I agree- getting to work is the issue (so for example on the weekend, he can stay in Pjs as long as he likes/ we need to go somewhere..However I find that for me (that is probably my issue- it is not an option to go out of the house undressed- yes theoretically it is possible (and no one would die) but I would feel like a total failure as a mother- authority figure- and unfortunatelly that is what I would think if I saw other kids in that situation...
I want to find ways of him understanding that some things/sometime can't be an issue- kind of like holding my hand when he crosses the road (at this age)..

Cumuli - could you get him to choose his clothes the night before. Next morning help him to get dressed (if he will let you) before you go for breakfast. He could even set up breakfast with you the night before.
And always allow a bit of extra time.

The boy in questioned is home schooled and UP.I was actually looking forward to meeting him as I am very much 'for' a more considered approach to certain situations and wanted to see what he was like tbh.He was completely disrespectful of our house and things and v difficult to deal with wrt eating bedtime etc Just a comment really not a criticism I know not all UP kids can be like this or there would be havoc.I think calling praising a child jusging is ludicrous though Who doesn't feel good when you have a positive acknowlegement of something you have done/achieved.I understand the join in the joy theory but just see some of this as excessive and not really do able socially

'I have found that if he gets into one of those strops where he's simply not listening to reason or discussion, it is no use giving him more time or pandering to the strop - I need to give him a couple of opportunities to comply and then I do what needs to be done '

I did the same when they were small. You can reason as much as you like and they simply don't want to listen. I think all the endless discussion would have driven me up the wall as a DC! I did make things easy, e.g. when they had daytime naps they had them in their clothes and then they were ready to go. When you have more than one DC they have to comply with some things e.g. if you have to meet an older sibling from school there is no room at all for negotiation. I just gave a few choices, kept calm. used distraction or a joke but at 3pm they had to be through the door!
I think that it would have made me insecure as a DC to have a mother who was willing to take me out of the house half dressed!
I would be rather cross if I had bad teeth and my mother told me it was because I hadn't wanted to brush them-I would think that she was the adult and should have insisted they were brushed!
Some people take it to extremes. When mine were small and we did cliff top walks I pointed out the dangers but I also held their hands. I know one woman who pointed out the dangers and then left it to them whether they listened!! She then got cross with other adults for worrying about her DCs! She had 3 children who were completely lacking in self confidence and were not willing to try new things-hardly surprising in my view as they couldn't rely on their mother keeping them safe!

I don't understand why UP seems to be about not giving praise. I was lucky as a DC and always felt the unconditional love of my parents. They gave praise but I didn't feel the 2 went together. My brother was always a bit of a problem, and still is to some extent (he has put my parents through a lot)and I am what you might call the 'good girl' but they love us equally-it has nothing whatever to do with performance.
I feel that my DSs have had a very secure, loving upbringing and they know that we will love and support them whatever. My DS is about to do his A'levels-if he gets the grades he wants in August I will be grinning from ear to ear, hugging him and saying 'you clever, clever thing'! This is because he has set his heart on one particular university and I will be proud of him. (I am not living through him-I have already done it myself). He knows that if he doesn't make it, it won't make a jot of difference to the love and I will be commiserating and supporting him in plan B or even plan C.

As an adult I love praise-it helps motivate me. I can do it without, but the world seems a greyer place. I love it when you say to a DC 'wow-that is fantastic' (if you mean it) and their face lights up like a light bulb!

If you live with other people you have to fit in, if you have a dog you have to meet it's needs, you have to allow for the fact that small DCs will have to do things that they don't want to do. You don't have to shout-just stay calm, polite and firm.

I give them lots of freedom in other things-for example I don't try to control what they think-which seems to happen a lot on these threads! If it isn't important I don't worry-if they wont eat their meal they can leave it but I don't do alternatives. They choose their own friends, activities, who comes to their parties etc etc.But in questions of keeping safe, considering others or just getting out of the house on time I am not going to waste time on endless discussion and negotiation.

I suppose my question is what do you do if the child doesn't stick to the solution they came up with?

And the answer is, state that their solution isn't working, so think about the problem again.

Piscesmoon, I can't find anything to disagree with in your post. Pretty well-balanced

Othersideofthechannel - I've usually found that if the child came up with solution then they stick to it.

cumili - I think it's telling that you say you would feel like a failure as a mother - authority figure. I don't want to be an authority figure, I want to be a respectful guide.

My DH comes across the same stumbling block. If one of them gets upset about something, and I find a way out of it, DH says 'oh right, now they've won'

I keep trying to explain that it's not about winning or losing, it's not them against us. He understands all the theory, but just can't always get past this mental block of 'I am the father so I am in charge' attitude .

noddy - it is doable, and I really think that the parents you're talking about are laissez-faire rather than UP or TCS if their child has grown up thinking it's acceptable to behave the way you describe.

And whatever you say, praise is judging - it's a positive judgement, but it's a jugement nonetheless, and if a child only feels valued if someone else judges what he's done positively, then I think that's sad.

However, as Juuule says, praise is not bad inherently wrong, but indiscrimate praise, or praise to get someone to do what you want, is not good.

Also, to whoever said they like being praised - that's because you've been praised your entire life. You've been conditioned to find it very helpful. If you'd always functioned on intrinsic motivation only, you probably wouldn't be so motivated just by someone praising you.

Thank you juuule-it must be one of the few times we have agreed on anything!
I must read AK-unfortunately he isn't in the library. I think that perhaps I am misunderstanding-does it mean that you can praise, but you shouldn't use it to get what you want?

"Also, to whoever said they like being praised - that's because you've been praised your entire life. You've been conditioned to find it very helpful. If you'd always functioned on intrinsic motivation only, you probably wouldn't be so motivated just by someone praising you."

I can't agree with this.
I do think that too much praise can create someone who waits for affirmation before doing something and so in effect can't think for themselves.
However, I don't think that we feel pleased when we are praised just because we were praised when younger. I think that human beings are social creatures and praise is an indicator of being accepted by the herd. We all want to belong at some level and people nodding and agreeing that we are doing the right thing shows us what is socially acceptable or not.
It's when this intrinsic feeling to be accepted is misused by others and we become dependant on praise that problems can arise. When we can't judge for ourselves whether we have done something good or of value.
Being praised is helpful. It gives you something to compare your own judgement against. If you think you've done something well and so does everyone else, then you probably have. If everyone else doesn't think it's that good and you still do, then you need to be strong enough to believe in yourself but be able to question whether they might have a point. You also need to be aware that the person dishing the praise might have their own motives for doing it.

Here endeth the amateur psychology session

It means that you aim not to praise at all. Read the book cos I am crap at explaining it .

But, I think most UP parents agree that praise is fine but needs to be focussed - like actual feedback. SO not just 'oh wow! You are so clever!'. Would be better to say 'you've coloured that in really neatly - not a line out of place! Are you pleased with it?'.

And not saying 'that's great because you coloured it neatly' because that means it's crap when you don't colour it neatly!

Did you read the links I posted earlier on in the thread?