Unconditional Parenting in a nutshell (I know this is incredibly lazy)

[SuperBunny]

I am embarrassed to do this but I haven't been able to read the book and need some quick Dos and Don'ts til I can get hold of the book again.

I have read some of the old threads but was really hoping that some nice person could give me a couple of bullet points about unconditional parenting.

I will be very grateful.

ds1 is 3 at the end of july (too hot to work out the months)

his understanding is quite good but he's stubborn as hell and like dd will cut off his nose to spite his face so neither of them are very easy to reason with.

dd likes cream and has skin that tans rather than burns like me so i've never had much of a fight with her but ds1 hates his face being done and will burn within minutes if it's not done... even when he's letting me do it he's squirming and twisting and making it really hard to get his whole face creamed without smearing it in his eyes. i just keep babbling at him about 'the lovely cream that keeps you from burning' and try and make a game of it if i can

I wouldn't go for saying that if you don't have cream on you can't go out in the sun-this is purely for the fact that we don't get a lot of nice weather in this country (e.g. last year in Cornwall-one day without rain in our week!)and if we are on holiday with others near the beach I wouldn't want to be skulking on the camp site under a tree.
It is also a hopeless way out if you have other DCs-I can't see it being very popular if you have to say to the siblings (who have cream on),'sorry but we can't go on the beach because xxx won't put cream on his face'!
Cream on the face isn't that difficult-if you ever have to put eye drops in a 2yr olds eyes you will really have your work cut out!
I didn't find a way that was acceptable to a 2 yr old or an explanation that convinced him that it was a good thing! Sometimes you just have to pin them down and do it.

sorry, i meant on a day like today for ds1.... it's 25 degrees here and he burns easily.

less sunny days or dd with her better skin i don't say things like that but i never want to have to bring him to the docs with blistered sunburn again and if it means imposing rules then so be it. he got burned that badly on a 20 min walk home on an april day when he was a baby as i'd forgotton the cream when we went swimming, he's too young to remember and understand the consequence of no cream on a hot day like today so i have to ensure that the consequence is something he can understand... ie, he can't go outside as it's too dangerous for him.

i'd still bring him to the beach but i'd bring the parasol and tell him he couldn't run around with the others without the cream but had to stay under the parasol.

that being said he's getting to the age now where after a while out on days like today he wants to be inside anyway as he's uncomfortable.

btw.. eye drops is easy, my gp told me as long as the eye drop hits the corner of the eye it doesn't matter if it's closed as some will seep in... must be true as they worked!

I wish my GP had told me that-it was the most difficult thing I have had to do.

ruddynorah, what about when the child knows you are saying no for a good reason, but they still don't want to do it?

cue: my mother about going to the optician's

I knew she was right (of course I did!) but cared more about the short-term issue of feeling silly in glasses than about any long term issues

so I absolutely refused to negotiate in any way

on the whole, of course, I agree with you, norah, and with most of the posters on this thread

my own dcs are now 9 and 12 and I think have definitely got to the stage where they accept that I'm not into the business of saying no for the sake of it

and at that age, they have a lot of sense and doing all the decision-making myself would seem very odd

training in decision making is a very important part of parenting and I would really feel I had failed if mine had reached school age ( let alone school leaving age) without ever having taken any decisions for themselves

on the whole, compared to many of my friends, I seem to have an unusual amount of trust in the good sense of my dcs

but I still recognise that there are times when anger and fear get in the way of good sense- that's where I step in

ds can decide whether he wears his hair long or short, but not whether he has a blood test

dd can decide whether she takes her pain killers or not, but not to hit little brother with her crutch

yes totally. it's about training them in decision making. i understand dd gets angry and frustrated sometimes, but in the end she does know if i'm insisting then it's a good idea. and that's because i never say 'cos i say so' or whatever. she's fully part of the process, and we talk about how she feels about that and what might happen if we don't do such a thing.

also at the age she is, 3, it's quite easy to get her excited about things that might otherwise be a bit scary or undesirable. so a blood test or whatever can be exciting, going to the hospital, seeing the doctor, does she want to wear her doctor outfit and take her stethescope etc. that kind of thing. i'll say to her 'do you think it might hurt a bit?' so it's not like i'm pretending it won't, then for her to be angry at me for not letting her know in advance and duping her. she likes to know things in advance, she feels more prepared that way.

distraction technique doesn't work so well when they're a bit older

or have gone through a lot of painful health issues or even developed an understandable distrust in the medical establishment

still, it's all part of the learning process

I think it is good for DCs to get frustrated and angry and understand that every need will not be met. It won't happen in real adult life-e.g. the man you love may not love you, the house that you set your heart on may be bought by someone else, you may fail the interview for the job you want. If you have learned to cope with failure and disappointment when you are younger you are more able to cope with the upset life sends you.
I have had tragedy in my life, I would have rather done without it, but it has made me a stronger person and I think I can cope with most things.
Making mistakes is a great way to learn-you don't learn as well from other people's mistakes. Failure can spur you on and make you determined to succeed next time.Arguing with siblings is a great, safe, way to learn about disputes and give and take and compromise.
Mum sorting out every little problem, negotiating every little thing and never saying 'NO' (I am at a loss to know why anyone would say no without a good reason!)is not necessarily a good thing.

I am rather haunted by a local boy. You could call him a 'golden boy' -bright, good looking, lots of friends, loving family and very intelligent. He sailed through life, passed every exam etc. I don't think that he had any problems or failure until university. He couldn't cope with either and committed suicide. It was such a waste and so sad, especially when it wasn't the end of the world and he would have realised it wasn't in a few years. Difficulties and failures in little things might have helped him to cope later IMO.

That's very sad Piscesmoon.

There is a whole chapter in the book about the pressure children are under to be a success.
Making your child feel loved for who they are regardless of their achievement is a big part of it.

Also, letting your children have their own way and only saying no as a last resort is compatible with letting them learn from their mistakes.

For example DS wanted to take some of his little cars to school a year ago. I warned him of the risks. He still wanted to take them and it is not against the rules provided they only come out at breaktime.
One of the cars got smashed. He has about 20 little cars so he was a bit upset but not heartbroken. He is now a lot more careful about what he takes to school. I feel confident that if he ever owns something costly like a DS he will be very careful about where he takes it and who he lets play with it.

I don't think there is anything in UP about neglecting health and safety. I definitely don't think that Cory's mother should have let her have the ultimate decision about going to see the eye doctor. But you can always question, why not do it my child's way?

There is no way you can protect your children from frustration like in the examples you give. But there's no point frustrating them unnecessarily either. There are plenty of opportunities to be frustrated outside the home.

He wasn't under any pressure-it had all come easily to him, the 2 younger brothers weren't as successful.
They can still learn from their mistakes from UP, and I don't believe in frustrating them for the sake of it but it does seem that the mother in particular is always bending over backwards to see the DCs point of view-I do think there are times where the DC should try and see it from the mother's point of view-especially as they get older. If not you get the example I gave much earlier where the UP parent was approaching 60, her DH had left and she was facing a miserable Christmas and her adult DCs said that she could bring the grandchildren's presents a couple of days before but they would be having Christmas alone with their DPs and children! They didn't see a mother as having needs.

As I don't know anything about that particular boy, I can't really discuss it.

But I don't think you can compare Unconditional Parenting to someone having a charmed life.

Also, what I understood from the book is that even if the parents don't deliberately apply any pressure, children can perceive that their parents love is conditional on them being 'well behaved' or a high achiever whether academically or in sports or other non academic pursuits. If the parents only ever pay attention to their child by rewarding the good and they ignoring the bad as is so commonly recommended, the child feels unloved if they aren't 'good'.

That brings us back round to praise again

I agree that UP is a pretty good thing-I think I do it most of the time-its just that some of the tougher things in life are very character forming. I am not putting it very well-tying myself in knots-so had better leave it!!

Also, I don't see why considering your childs point of view is 'bending over backwards'.

UP is also about teaching your children to think about other people's point of view and feelings rather than their own.

Eg with a young child you can motivate them to share by pointing out how it makes their friends happy and how their friends get sad if you don't let them take turns with the toy.

Rather than motivating them by encouraging them to think about themselves 'you'll have no friends if you don't learn to share' or 'share this car nicely and I'll reward you'.

I often notice if DS ever pinches another child, everytime he goes near them afterwards the child runs off because they are scared DS will do it again. In that situation with UP would it be wrong to say to DS "see if you pinch people they don't want to play with you"

No it wouldn't be wrong at all. You are explaining the situation to him. If he is going to be nasty to someone, then he needs to know it won't be unexpected if they are nasty back.

The UP part would include finding out why he is pinching. If there is any other reason for it apart from wanting a reaction. Is it because he's upset? Is he after more attention? If it's attention he's after, is it reasonable? and if it is, then what other ways could he get that attention without hurting people. That type of thing, rather than just thinking he's being nasty for the sake of it.

But no, nothing wrong at all in letting him know that people will avoid him if he keeps hurting them.

otherside has a good point, you can usually phrase things positively

though you may still find yourself faced with child logic: 'but I don't want to make him happy'

and to go off at a slight tangent, I think laying too much stress on how certain types of behaviour makes mummy sad can actually put more pressure on a child than a brisk 'no, you mustn't'.

I have known mums who have thought themselves expert at avoiding conflict- but from the outside it has looked remarkably like emotional blackmail.

my Mum (who may have slipped up over the eye test, but is actually a very wise person) knew that mummy-sad is much stronger stuff than stop-that, so she used it sparingly, which I was grateful for; I hated it and I've noticed that my children do too

I suppose that's to do with phrasing things positively

Oh, I really disagree with that 'it makes mummy sad' thing. What a burden on the child!

what about it makes mummy cross or angry? or it hurts mummy. i hear those quite a bit.

I think 'it hurts mummy' is fair enough if they are kicking you etc! I would always say 'it makes mummy cross because.....'
'It makes mummy sad', sounds a bit pathetic and is emotional blackmail.
The DC isn't responsible for Mum's emotional state-but their behaviour might make them cross, or physically hurt them. There is a subtle difference.

Gosh, yes, of course you need to let them know if it hurts!

I don't see a problem with saying when things are making you angry. I think it helps children to put names to emotions, both good and bad, as long as you aren't using it as emotional blackmail.

I think I would tell a child I felt sad, and why, if they accidentally broke an object of sentimental value. You can show you forgive them for the accident and still be sad at the same time.

But 'when you hit your sister it makes me sad' - NO!

For a start it doesn't, it makes me furious grin]

If it is something that has happened that would make you sad that is very different from 'not eating your greens makes mummy sad' or 'not putting sun cream on makes mummy sad'.

It does make me sad when my DS hurts people though.