Unconditional Parenting in a nutshell (I know this is incredibly lazy)

[SuperBunny]

I am embarrassed to do this but I haven't been able to read the book and need some quick Dos and Don'ts til I can get hold of the book again.

I have read some of the old threads but was really hoping that some nice person could give me a couple of bullet points about unconditional parenting.

I will be very grateful.

Couldn't you have taken the dog out later?

well my way of dealing with it would have been to say

"ds, the dog has to have a walk, otherwise he'll be very unhappy. we are going to go for a walk, and you will need to take your sleeping bag off. If you are still in your sleeping bag after I've got my shoes on i'll help you take it off"

then I would expect him to either take it off himself, or I would take it off for him once I was ready.

as I said, UP isn't about just allowing your kids to do whatever they want. you are allowed to have rules, you are allowed to set limits and you are allowed to say "this WILL happen" and make sure it does. but there are no conditions involved.
you aren't rewarding him for doing it, or punishing him for not doing it. you're giving him a choice to take it off or not by himself, but letting him know that if he chooses not to then you will do it for him.

gemzooks, disagree with you on that one!
I need to formulate a coherent response though lol

it's really worth reading the book, if you haven't already
i actually went into it fairly sceptical, but was converted by the time i'd finished reading it, and I can honestly say that it's made my life with ds1 a lot more pleasant!

but like I said before, I don't use it as a set of rules because I don't think any specific form of parenting can ever suit everyone all the time. but you can certainly take it and use it to fit your family

Why would everything else get done later? Does it all have to be done in strict order?
Couldn't you get the dinner on and then your ds might be ready for the walk with the dog?
Why are you more bothered about being unfair on the dog rather than your ds?

That is how I would handle it, thisisyesterday,quite calm, without shouting but with limits. The dog needs a walk and he has to understand that and not selfishly deprive the dog. There is no way that I would let a very young DC face the natural consequences in some cases. I wouldn't take them out in the cold and rain with no shoes, I am the adult and they are the DC. Some things are non negotiable-you don't have to shout and get cross just make it quite plain. At the end of the day, teeth are cleaned-it isn't a choice. Bedtime can have some choices as in which story to have and whether to look at books for a few minutes on their own but going to bed isn't negotiable.
I certainly believe in giving praise when it is due-the DC knows perfectly well if they deserve it or not. I was in school today and some DCs produced wonderful work with intense effort. They loved being praised and they knew that it was deserved. Some of them get very little praise ever-it is so sad for them.

I like praise myself! If I have done something well it is nice to have it acknowledged!

No but would another 10mins have killed the dog

If it needed doing I probably would have done the same as thisisyesterday. But more likely would have given it another 10-15mins.
I've had to become very flexible with my routines over the years.

Hi- thanks everyone for suggestions- haven't had a chance to read all od the discussion yet- just wanted to say that I am reading How to talk.. and I really like the ideas- however at the moment , in practice I revert to my old (inapropraite??) behaviour.. I am a bit of a control freak admitedly. I guess I need to practice. Although I did try to do the fantasy thing and he absolutely hated it (maybe he realised I also thought it a bit wierd)

I had a look at TCS- and I agree in principle- and apply this approach to certain things- like when we go to the park/ what we play etc.. However in my opinion- the child decides not to take a bath or gets dressed in the streest is not an option. Sorry... I also have a problem with having to give in to his opinon (or whim...)he is only 4.5- surely there are times when I know better? Or is this too contraversial...

OK- have read all the posts now- I agree with Hopeforthebest and piscesmoon- there are definitely times we can't all be happy with the solution and there are times where my opinion/ or my schedule are more important. Perhaps if he was older, there would be room for more flexibilty (wrt baths/ bedtime/ clothes). I also agree with someone (forgot who now) who said that as a perent you need to teach them to understand that there are certain rules, and things don't always go the way you (the child, in this case) want.
I would have certainly got him out of the sb and out to walk the dog- there has to be a time limit to trying to gently persuade them or find a compromise.. Sometimes there is just no time to debate endlessly...

do you remember that case in Munich recently where the mother was prosecuted for taking her toddler out naked on the back of the bike because the toddler didn't want to get dressed. It was 8 degrees, not really freezing, but anyway she was prosecuted I think. to me, that illustrates the ambivalence I feel towards UP, that actually the mother's responsibility in that case was to explain why and then just get the toddler dressed, wider society won't negotiate with you when you get older, there are certain rules!

Hi, I'm very interested in the idea of UP and TCS although haven't had a chance to read AK book yet. My question is about older children and specifically interactions between two siblings. DS1 is nearly 10, DS2 is 5 and DS1 has always been jealous of DS2 and is continually putting him down. I know what the problem is and am always trying to reassure DS1 of our love but he always says "Just admit it, you love him more".He constantly picks fights with DS2 until he retaliates by calling him a baby, asking him maths questions he couldn't know the answer to then calling him an idiot etc and won't share with him if they are playing, if I make him stop playing he sees it as a confirmation that I love DS2 more but if I let him carry on it's not fair on DS2! At the moment I keep telling him it's not acceptable to treat DS2 like that, he says he will stop but doesn't, so I do end up having to punish him which isn't what I want. Any suggestions please?

Oh goodness, what a lot of posts! This is why I can never actually find the main priniciples of UP - everyone (including me) always asks 'what should I do when X does Y' and then there is a lot of discussion. I am grateful for all the posts, it is certainly interesting to see how other people deal with these situations, so thank you all.

I might make myself bullet points from all this.

So far:

No praise - just state the facts

No conditions

Say, remind, make it happen

Try not to say No - (eg, when DS asked if he could fly his kite, I said, "Yes. we'll do that tomorrow")

Bite your tongue!

Hopeforthebest have you considered putting your DS down for a nap in his usual clothes? Then there is less for him to do when he wakes up.

Cluttered have you read Sibling Rivalry? Lots of good ideas in there. You can let your elder DS know that it's ok if he doesn't like his brother all the time but that it's not ok to tease him. If relevant to your situation, perhaps talk about the times you found it difficult having siblings, but also how much you value them.

Also take whatever they are fighting over away until they have sorted out a way of sharing they are both happy with. Not in a punishing way, just a matter of fact 'oh, I see you both want to play with the light saber. I'll hold it for you until you've decided on a fair way of sharing it'. You might have to help them through the process a few times if they've never done it before but my DCs have been sorting out these sort of arguments since they were 3 and 5.

Superbunny there's a chapter in UP with the main points.

My copy is in a room where someone is sleeping but of the top of my head I remember:

take your time (build in extra time in your schedule)

make sure you are not expecting too much from child, keep their age in mind

That's a good point that you make, othersideofthechannel, about child napping in usual clothes. I never changed my dc clothes for a nap during the day. In fact, they would nap in the pushchair, which meant if they were still asleep when I had to do the schoolrun I got myself ready and then just pushed them to school. They would wake up on the way and come round in their own time. By the time we reached school they were usually awake and interested in what was going on around them. No stress at all.
If I knew that I was going to have to do something and the child's nap might over-run then I got the child ready to go out before they fell asleep.

Gemzooks - I completely disagree with you about children needing to practice being coerced in order to grow up as law-abiding citizens! In fact, the law is usually a fairly helpful way of explaining why we can't do something and my children accept it as such. When we go places where the rules say 'under 5s only' my over 5yo doesn't play there, for example. There's no problem about it.

Superbunny - IME, the way to do UP (not TCS, because TCS is not an approach or a method, it is a theory, a philosophy) is to keep asking questions, and to keep reflecting on what you did wrong or right. Why did that work? I'll try that one again. Why did I have to end up physically forcing my crying toddler to do that? What could I have done differently. And not just asking yourself, but asking other UP parents

Which is why it's really annoying when, on here, when parents post 'Unconditional parenting: how could I have done this better?' and people respond with 'I would have smacked them and sent them to their room - who's in charge here FFS - tut!' Completely missing the point and completley not helpful!

I've got my own 'what should I do?' question today.

DS has a plastic chain about 20 cm long part of some toy or other. He likes to swing it around. Fair enough if he's not near anyone or anything that could get hurt.

He is swinging it this morning. When he came to eat breakfast I asked him to put it on the shelf near the table where we put toys that come to the table. He said he'd put it in his pocket. Fair enough. But it keeps coming out. So I said, 'It's hard for you to leave the chain alone when it's in your pocket. Please give it to me'. He doesn't want to.

In situations like this, I can't see how to make him give me the chain without ending up chasing him round the house and pinning him down

Fortunately today the toast popped out of the toaster onto the floor which was a big enough distraction. I was really wondering.... what next?

These are good practical suggestions-how to make things run more smoothly. Still to me, it seems thatas parents we have to spend a lot of time and effort avoiding the problem.. not sure this comes naturally to me.. Yes a baby/ toddler could sleep in the buggy/ dressed to avoid delays, and I am sure thats OK, sometimes- but with preschoolers I am excpecting certain recognition oin their part that dressing/ bath/ undressing etc are not really for discussion- yes we can do it in a different way- but we have to do it, and generally we Have to do it at a certain time..

TBH, I think I am not relaxed enough as a person for this UP...(I am probably too selfish as well.) But it sounds great for the little things..

very helpful, though reading all the posts

Hmmm....well, I can see your irritated by it. I would be too.

And I'm really mean about having toys in the kitchen diner and my 'excuse' is that I'll trip over it when I'm cooking if it's on the floor (which is daft, because the toys rarely are where I'll trip on them) or they'll get food on them (but then that's a bit of a non-problem). It's my issue, not theirs.

Is this your issue? I mean, you say you have a shelf where toys that come to the table go? What's that for? Is it because you don't like toys at the table? Why not? (apart from that it's irritating ).

And I can see why the chain is a problem - is he actually swinging it round at the table? Could you say that there's too much on the table, and people/things are too close by for swinging, so when he's at the table, could he just fiddle with it, rather than swing it?

I always find the best approach (when I'm in the right mind!), is to say to myself 'what actually is the problem here? what is the actual reason I don't want them doing that?' and then, based on that 'is there another way round this? Can I change my thinking? Or come at it from a different angle to help change my DC's thinking?'

How old is he? If he's over 3, I reckon you could you sit down with him and say 'look, I can see you love your chain and it's really important to you but I really don't like you bringing your chain to the table because [insert real, rational reason]. Can you help me come to a solution about this, please, so we can both be happy? Have you any ideas?'

IME, children can respond brilliantly to things like this and be wonderfully creative in their thinking.

On another note - do we need a UP/TCS thread where we can post problems and ask for some collective, creative thinking? Lots of people have had some fantastic ideas on here - the more brains thinking, the more likely we are to get better at solving problems in the future?

Cumili - why do those things have to be done? Only because you want them to be done. Why can't you discuss with them about when/how/whether to get dressed/go to bed/get undressed?

I'm not relaxed - I'm a control freak. I hate how much I have to look at myself and reassess exactly what my issue is with somethings, but I do it because I think it's producing very capable, very rational, sensible children, who live well co-operatively and creatively. They know they are respected as people. They have a fantastic sense of what is right and what is wrong. I am absolutely certain, without a doubt, that that is down to them being treated as people, not children. I don't treat them as adults, but just as equal to myself.

It's easier to do now that some of them are a bit older and I can see what they're turning out like - it's a bit of a leap of faith when their just toddlers!

And life goes much more smoothly when we're all working with eachother instead of against eachother so it makes more sense from that point of view too.

Why are they not for discussion?
Also you don't have to discuss them at the time they are happening, you can discuss them at another time and then remind them later.

Othersideofthechannel - I think after trying everything else, I would have told him that he could keep it in his pocket but if he got it out during breakfast then it would have to go in the bin as it was dangerous. Presumably you had already told him that he could hurt someone with it. I would also tell him that he had to stop swinging it near anybody or in the house as things could get damaged or people get hurt. Again, otherwise it would be going in the bin.