Unconditional Parenting in a nutshell (I know this is incredibly lazy)

[SuperBunny]

I am embarrassed to do this but I haven't been able to read the book and need some quick Dos and Don'ts til I can get hold of the book again.

I have read some of the old threads but was really hoping that some nice person could give me a couple of bullet points about unconditional parenting.

I will be very grateful.

by reading the suggestions of other posters who practice it: such as- why do you have to walk a dog at that time.. why do they have to leave the house dressed, why do they have to brush teeth?
the assumption is that you have to allow your DCs to do as they wish (or at least not make them do what they don't particularly want to do)- so that might clash with your busy schedule and you are very unlikely to ahve time for some of these suggestions (such as leave more time...).

i have no problem with people choosing this approach, it is not for me (in its purist form), and I really don' think it can fit in a busy structured life as mulranno asked.

I am all for being respectful to your children etc, etc and giving them plenty of choice it is just my opinion then if things in your life have to be done at certain time/ cerainway, then SOMETIMES you might have to use a different approach

"the assumption is that you have to allow your DCs to do as they wish"
I would argue that assumption is wrong.

"(or at least not make them do what they don't particularly want to do)"

as is that.

"it is just my opinion then if things in your life have to be done at certain time/ cerainway,"

In those instances, then those things have to be done when they have to be done. Otherwise, how would children get to school on time, parents get to work on time, other appointments be kept?

UP really is asking you to step back and consider whether things really need to be done the way you think? Does the dog absolutely need to be walked right now? If not, then be more flexible but if you decide that it does then that's how it has to be.
I think that UP is about considering your children's needs and wants equally with your own. But with the adult having the wider experience then they can over-ride certain things. Avoid bribery and flattery of children for your own ends. Avoid punishment of children due to your own impatience. Try to give reasons for things rather than "because I said so".
As Cory says "about respecting your children and giving them a voice,".
I'm still not sure why a busy lifestyle would make UP impossible to do.

in my very limited experience the dog will probably need walking at a certain time in the morning and will make its needs known

have you ever tried to have a reasoned discussion with a cross-legged dog?

this sounds like a non-problem

We let ours out the back first thing and take it for walk when we are ready

Mulranno, I try to make UP work in a structured lifestyle. DCs are in school and we both work.

So we all have to eat and be dressed by a certain time in the morning.

We also have a bedtime because otherwise it is too hard on everyone to eat and get dressed in the morning.

But they can lounge around in pjs at the weekend.

I do actually agree with your last post juule , and with otherside- things can certainly be bit more flexible at the weekend/ holiday etc.

Some things may not really have to be done- some do. But equally as a parent you may WISH to do something and your DCs will have to behave in away that allows that.

It's like with other issues- some people just take the whole philosophy a bit too far for my liking...

From my experience- my mum was quite a natural UP, and it was great although we knew that in the end she was in charge. However (similar to some other posters) I wish she had made me wear braces (I didn't want to, she decided not to insist), learn French (I couldn't be bothered, she didn't insist) or play tennis etc.. I am very grateful she did make me go to ski-school, even though I hated it initailly...

otherside of the channel...thanks for that..thats really how we live also. We have 4 at 4 different schools we both work running our own separate businesses ...the children are all really sporty and are always at diff tournaments...so it does have to be a tight ship from a logistical point of view...but they are happy to go to school and motivated to do their sports so this isnt really a problem...they seem happy unless the are now just little robots!?...should we review the schedule with thm so that they reconfirm they all agree or would this just open a big can of worms...maybe we should just focus on the new stuff.

Also is UP just about how you respond when you ask them to do something and they refuse?...or do you open up every decision for debate negotiation?

When I was a DC our dog seemed to know when it was 4pm-if he hadn't had a walk by then he brought in his lead, stared people in the eye or followed them around! He wasn't much interested in a DC's point of view! He was also impossible to resist for more than 30 mins.

I agree with cory that parenting depends a lot in your confidence in the role. I had an excellent childhood and my parent's didn't use rewards or punishments. I can remember telling my mother that everyone was getting promised things like a new bike for passing the 11+. She refused to promise anything, they both said that I couldn't do anything more than my best, and it would be horrible if I not only failed but didn't get the promised bike. I know from these threads that parents promise varying amounts of money for different grades in exams. I don't promise my DS's anything -they should be doing their best because they want good grades for themselves. I may celebrate afterwards with cooking a special meal or going out for a meal. If they are only going to pass them for financial reward I would question why they are taking them in the first place-certainly not for me, I already have my certificates.
I think that my parents could possibly have handled some things a bit better, but on the whole they did a good job so I do more or less the same. I wonder if the people seeking a radical new way didn't have a good childhood themselves? (If they didn't it seems a good idea to find a new model-but not to assume that it is better than anyone elses).

'Also is UP just about how you respond when you ask them to do something and they refuse?...or do you open up every decision for debate negotiation?'

I wouldn't-life is too short!
I also think parents have rights. If my DS was expecting to have his dinner carried to his room so that he could watch a DVD, I would ask him what his last slave died from!

aargghh, can i butt in for help again ladies?

ds1 is in a nightmare mood again, he keeps attacking everyone and hurting us and laughing.

i've tried talking to him about being sore and how he doesn't like it when he's sore and it's the same for everyone but he keeps shouting 'want you/dd/cat to be sad' and laughing.

if i can't reason with him (which is hardly surpirising given his age) and can't punish him for doing it then what's his motivation for stopping? how do i encourage him to stop if he doesn't want to without using rewards or punishments? dp is on the verge of dumping him out on the step so advice quickly would be great!

pisces, in answer to your musings on our own childhoods... my mother was a wooden spoon wielder and my dad was a pay for good grades man so you can draw your own conclusions

I'm really sorry, PT, I can't remember how old your DS is?

Does distraction work at all - when dd was small (under 3) generally when she got to that stage the best solution was to get her out of the house (sometimes easier said than done) to run/walk/jump in puddles or whatever.

(disclaimer here - I only have the one, totally appreciate that this may not be practical with more)

takver, thanks for the advice. unfortunately ds2 is asleep and is due to wake any minute for a feed and it's lashing rain here so going out isn't really an option right now.

ds1 is 2 (3 in july).

distracting him isn't really working, when it does it lasts about 2 mins and then he's back attacking someone again. dd doesn't help by doing her utmost to provoke him and then wailing when he goes mental (she's 4 so not hugely easy to reason with either!)

it's frustrating as i know it's just their ages but without any natural consequences that he cares about (ie he's not bothered that he's upsetting everyone, tells us he wants that) and no punishment it's getting exhausting.

i try and let them work it out themselves when possible but i can't really leave it to the point of someone getting seriously hurt, when pushed too far dd will attack back.

Mulranno, apart from work and school, we only have one activity to go to per week for less than an hour. I have deliberately not overloaded DCs to cut down on rushing them.

But they are only 4 and 6. When they are older they may well be up for a more hectic schedule.

For you, if things are working, why review them? If your DCs know you are approachable and will listen to their ideas, they will let you know.

I would just be inclined to hold on to him PinkTulips.
I would stay calm, get down to his level, look him in the eye and say 'NO' firmly. If he says that he wants to hurt I would wrap him in a big bearhug so that he can't move his arms and say 'NO,Mummy, the cat etc don't want to be hurt'. He will then struggle to get free so you say-still very calmly and matter of factly- 'let's read a story, play with ...but NO hitting and let go'. If he starts again you just repeat it all with the when you stop hitting we will... 'and try and make it something he will want to do. If he won't give in I would use the distraction while he is in the bearhug and gradually let go as he gets interested
Hopefully you are successful and he can have some fun with something, and then after about 10 minutes you say in conversational terms 'How do you think that cat felt when you hit him?', if the silly mood has gone and he is calm he is likely to join in your conversational tone and you could ask him what he thinks the cat might do back and if he thinks her claws might hurt. Ask him what he thinks the cat would like-if the cat is around you could try gently stroking it together-with a bit of luck the cat might respond and you can say that she really likes him doing it. It the cat takes one look and goes you could say 'you frightened poor...., should we try later and see if she will let you stroke her?'
Maybe someone else has a better suggestion. Basically, you have to get him out of the hyper, silly bit without rising to it yourself.

he knows their claws hurt, he's covered in scratchs but it doesn't seem to stop him... daft child

thanks pisces, i think i've been doing more or less what you suggest but it looks like it's just something he'll have to grow out of gradually.

when i bear hug him he gets hysterical so i use it as a last resort to stop him doing serious damage but i do have to pick him up and remove him from the situation almost every time so will have to make more of an effort to plop him in front of something interesting instead

Do you know the signs of when he is going to start? My DS1 had a point where he didn't care if he got past it, it used to take me by surprise when he was the age of your DS but as he got older I could see it coming and head it off-it was much more successful-if he got past the point I just had to wait until he finished.
I would have a notebook handy and jot down when he does it. You probably find there is a pattern and perhaps you could do something to avoid it. I would suspect that he might do it when you are too busy to pay him attention. You might already know which situations cause it and so don't need to jot down.
If it usually happens when you are busy with the baby you could try and find him an occupation before you start doing something with the baby. If it is when he is tired try getting him to do a calming down thing like watching a DVD. It isn't easy, I only had one to worry about and that is much easier. By the time I had the other 2 the eldest was sufficiently old enough to keep them amused.
I found boys very physical-I used to think a run around the block was a good thing!
He will get better as he gets older!
Hopefully someone who is dealing with a similar situation will come along with some advice.

Does UP AIM to "do less"...or do you just end that way as it can be time consuming?

But it cant be that time consuming as everyone has enough time to post on here "armchair parenting" ..(wink)

just learnt a new skill

Good job Mulranno

'Do you know the signs of when he is going to start?'

he gets out of bed in the morning

all joking aside though i think it's an energy thing, he needs more time outside but the weather's been so hideous that i'm finding it difficult to bring them out a huge amount the last few days. he just needs to wear off energy really and being so little he takes the excess energy out on us.

Hopeforthebest I think at face value those quotes are a bit I presume, though, that a child wouldn't just be left to it with no input from adults at all. So, possibly the choices that the child makes would be informed ones. And I would assume that the age of the child would be a consideration, too.
I like the Joyfully Rejoicing site. I think it's thought provoking. Some things are a step too far for me but is that because it's wrong or because I just don't quite understand it yet? As I said thought-provoking.

I quite like this quote from the joyfully rejoicing site.
"There are important times when we need to be clear and strong and unequivocal with children. Let this come as much as possible out of awareness, generosity, and discernment, rather than out of fear, self-righteousness, or the desire to control. Mindful parenting does not mean being overindulgent, neglectful, or weak; nor does it mean being rigid, domineering, and controlling."