Sex Education in Primary Schools - I've been to the meetings and I still feel uncomfortable, is it just me?

[Rhubarb]

I sat through a meeting last night about the kind of sex education that will be provided to our children, starting from Reception up to Year 6.

I agreed with everything the guy from the Education Dept said, about openess and focusing more on relationships and emotions etc. Then they showed up clips of the video they'll be using to teach the kids. So far so good.

In the section aimed at 5-7 year olds it showed a cartoony illustration of a girl's bits and went through the names - this leads to the vagina, this is a clitoris. Then it said "the clitoris is a small bump at the front, it can sometimes get hard and this can feel nice" - we weren't shown but apparently the video says the same thing for the boys. An audible gasp and murmurs rose up from us, the parents.

For the age bracket 7-9 they add the words "if you touch it, it can feel nice".

Myself and some other parents felt uncomfortable with this and we had a discussion with him at the end. Everything he said seemed to make sense, about not making sex seem dirty, it's natural, it feels nice etc. Not being ashamed of their body parts, and focusing on the fact that girls can feel nice as well as boys.

So why do I still feel uncomfortable with this bit? I don't think I would have an issue with that aimed at older children, say in Year 6. But for this age, I have this niggly feeling that just isn't right.

So often as parents we can only rely on our instincts and we are told to follow them as much as possible. Yet when it comes to sex ed we are told that our instincts are just our hangups about sex and to ignore our feelings and trust what they are saying.

So I wondered what you lot had to say about it all?

hardly cocoapops!

the crux of the matter for me is age appropriate. i persoanlly dont think a 7 yo needs to be told "this is a clitoris and it feels nice to touch it"

i think maybe a 10 yo needs that information.

Hmm well we will have to agree to disagree.

custy, help!

I am completely against sex education being foisted on children of primary school age.
I think it's part and parcel of the over-sexualisation of this generation of children.

Why put in the bit about "if you touch it, it feels nice". What purpose does that serve? I'm pretty confident that my children don't fiddle (not that it would be a problem to me if they did). I wouldn't see that as masturbation because I wouldn't see it in sexual terms. If children find that out for thesleves, fair enough. I find the thought of an adult effectively suggesting to my children that they try it quite disturbing.

I do object to the way that "the state" seems to be taking away more and more respnsibility for parents indeciding how to bring up their own children. To say that someone can "take their children out" is missing the point, IMO. This would single particualr children out as being someohow different.

Personally speaking, I was sexually abused as a child and I wish that we would have had this kind of sex education. We had nothing. We were due to have sex education in primary 6, but one parent complained and it was cancelled. Some parents do not discuss any sexual or bodily issues with their children. I'm glad the government are taking a stance on this. I only wish they would have when I was at school.

It's a clitoris - it feels nice - why are we trying to pretend to kids that it doesn't.

I certainly played with mine at an early age because it felt nice. There were no sexual thoughts in my head - it just felt nice and warm.

By telling children it feels nice is to tell them the truth. It's only our adult minds that associate it with sex.

Just re-read this thread.

The video Rhubarb is referring to does not discuss the clitoris in terms of it's sexual function it refers to it as part of a girls genitalia ie boys have a penis and girls have a vagina and a clitoris. Full stop, end of. The purpose of the video, which is aimed at Year 1 and 2 age, is to give children the correct names for their genitals and to introduce them to the fact that girls and boys bodies are different. The video does NOT once reference sex or the sex act or the role of the penis, vagina and clitoris in the sex act. It is about introducing the children to the right language early on to help us and them have frank and honest conversations about relationships, sex and sexual health when they are a little older. If we are all still blushing behind silly words like 'willy' and 'fairy' and denying that our kids touch themselves then how can we help them.

Also, I think withdrawing your child from these sessions is pointless. All that will happen then is they hear it all second hand in the playground.

Actually the vid, aimed at the 5-7 year age bracket, shows detailed genitalia and says "the clitoris is the little bump at the front of the vagina, sometimes it goes hard and that can feel nice!" then cuts to a girl's cartoon face experiencing "niceness".

It does not go hard unless you touch it anyway, it can't do it on its own, it's not like a penis.

After teaching a sex ed lesson to Y6 and realising that half the boys and girls thought a scrotum was something both sexes have and that eggs are made in your overalls! I think we definately need more sex ed! I think it begins to feel uncomfortable when we atart talking about 'pleasure' because we automatically relate that to sex and relationships. If a child isn't taught about it early on, they'll only hear about it from the more 'streetwise' kids in class!

Also a bit unclear as to how sex education can help prevent sexual abuse. I don't want to sound facetious, but I just don't see how this would work.

Scarletlilybug -It would have stopped sexual abuse occurring in my case. It was over a prolonged period of time, in which I didn't know if what was happening was right or wrong. If I had learnt about these things from school I would have known that it was wrong. Also, the channels of communication would have been open.

Rhubarb. I'm pretty sure we watched the same video and at no point did it show the face of a girl experiencing the pleasure of clitoral stimulation. I also disagree that the images of the genitalia were detailed. I don't understand, why it would be a bad thing for our kids to watch this and then go home and touch themselves? Why shouldn't they be as familiar with their penis or clitoris as they are with their nostrils or ear lobes?

I used to touch myself as a young child and remember the feelings of guilt I had doing so. I was raised by catholics who thought touching yourself was a sin. I was also told that Jesus and all the saints were always watching me and that just added to the complete mental fuck up that was my early experience of sex and sexuality.

I wish I'd been shown this video as a youngster. It would have saved a lot of mental anguish.

" realising that half the boys and girls thought a scrotum was something both sexes have and that eggs are made in your overalls! "

isn't that stuff covered in biology lessons at secondary school?

"Actually the vid, aimed at the 5-7 year age bracket, shows detailed genitalia and says "the clitoris is the little bump at the front of the vagina, sometimes it goes hard and that can feel nice!" then cuts to a girl's cartoon face experiencing "niceness"."

That sounds fine to me. I am sure some children have experienced this and might wonder why. Why not just explain it to them rather than leaving them to perhaps worry why their body reacts like this? I am sure most children are recilient enough to survive this explanation. What's the worse that can happen? That they might want to try it out?

I am pretty sure the government has taken some advice about when children are ready for this and that the educational material is written by someone who has a vague clue about what age group they are addressing.

Also, it is not true that the clitoris needs to be touched to become erect. At least not in my experience.

"i am pretty sure the government has taken some advice about when children are ready for this and that the educational material is written by someone who has a vague clue about what age group they are addressing."

And that's exactly why I'm not happy with it.

The whole business stinks as badly as a Pasolini film.

What makes you think it will actually harm children to hear stuff that they find, on hearing it, embarrassing/scary/yucky? They wil hear/see/read stuff that grosses them out or scares them at intervals throughout their education (whether it's learning about the Great Plague in history or handling a dead sheep's eye in biology).

I think it's an absolutely excellent idea to tell children, particularly girls, that touching their genitalia can be pleasurable. THere is nothing at all wrong with a child exploring his/her own body at any age. Suggesting that there is something wrong with touching one's own body is projecting your own hangups onto other people and far more likely to do them harm than being given facts about their bodies.

So, are you going to bleat that your DC are 'too young' to be taught the same history as the rest of the class? (Because history is full of horrors.) How about some of the more obnoxious and toxic bullshit various religions peddle - are you going to complain when your DC come home terrified that the Giant Spaghetti Monster will get them if they don't say special prayers?

What on earth is wrong with little girls knowing the name for the clitoris. A little girl has got a clitoris, so why should any part of her own body be somehow forbidden to her?

"What makes you think it will actually harm children to hear stuff that they find, on hearing it, embarrassing/scary/yucky? "

So would you consider it okay for the school to show a 5yo an over-18 rated film?
Surely it's about what we consider age-appropriate for our own children. It's not about trying to keep them in the dark about anything. And I do think that if some things are told too soon it can cause problems.

Juuule I think my Y6's knew every other name for a scrotum

Gosh i think it's wonderful some young children are getting such useful sex education.

Like others I felt very guilty aged 7, 8 etc about touching myself.

Unfortunately dd1 is at a Faith school so won't get it like this. Oh the gov may make it compulsory but in my experience faith schools are VERY good at getting out of things!

And to those who feel they as parents are best placeed to handle this stuff, good for you.
But I don't feel I am. I talk about sex and relationships with dds but feel that the extra layer of education and authority they get from school-based sex ed would be very beneficial.

Not to mentioned be welll researched from psychological and developmental POV which anything I say certainly won't!

Up state involvement!

Up state involvement?

Dear, oh dear.

I would say that there is too much info there for a 5-7yr old to comprehend comfortably.... but then I dislike euphemisms and odd language being used for bodily parts but actually labelling the parts for a small child seems to be over the top. You could still convey the message that it's ok to touch or not touch yourself as you prefer (my daughter often has her hands in her knickers at night) without blinding them with science.

Have to say it is a step further than I'd be comfortable with at this age. It would be hard to teach this without some moral context and I'm not sure that I particularly want either the Government of the day or the teacher having so much authority in this area.

It wasn't so long ago when the idea of a 5yo girl being quite so aware of her clitoris would have caused one to check the child protection policy carefully. I think that some people on here may be forgetting how different political parties may act in Government. This just feels way too intrusive for comfort.

Of course it is state involvement. The state provides education for our children. Education is not only about maths and english. At the moment my ds1 who is 7 has a project about healthy eating.

I would very much object to my children being shown an over 18-rated film, but I don't see how the word clitoris can be 18-rated?

This might be of interest for some re childrens developmental stages and their sexuality.

www.ces.purdue.edu/providerparent/child%20growth-development/SexualDEV.htm

www.cyh.com/HealthTopics/HealthTopicDetails.aspx?p=114&np=122&id=1648

kidshealth.org/parent/growth/sexual_health/development.html