Sex Education in Primary Schools - I've been to the meetings and I still feel uncomfortable, is it just me?

[Rhubarb]

I sat through a meeting last night about the kind of sex education that will be provided to our children, starting from Reception up to Year 6.

I agreed with everything the guy from the Education Dept said, about openess and focusing more on relationships and emotions etc. Then they showed up clips of the video they'll be using to teach the kids. So far so good.

In the section aimed at 5-7 year olds it showed a cartoony illustration of a girl's bits and went through the names - this leads to the vagina, this is a clitoris. Then it said "the clitoris is a small bump at the front, it can sometimes get hard and this can feel nice" - we weren't shown but apparently the video says the same thing for the boys. An audible gasp and murmurs rose up from us, the parents.

For the age bracket 7-9 they add the words "if you touch it, it can feel nice".

Myself and some other parents felt uncomfortable with this and we had a discussion with him at the end. Everything he said seemed to make sense, about not making sex seem dirty, it's natural, it feels nice etc. Not being ashamed of their body parts, and focusing on the fact that girls can feel nice as well as boys.

So why do I still feel uncomfortable with this bit? I don't think I would have an issue with that aimed at older children, say in Year 6. But for this age, I have this niggly feeling that just isn't right.

So often as parents we can only rely on our instincts and we are told to follow them as much as possible. Yet when it comes to sex ed we are told that our instincts are just our hangups about sex and to ignore our feelings and trust what they are saying.

So I wondered what you lot had to say about it all?

A child is not a sexual being.

A child is a child. They are more interested in dolls and cars than they are in sex. As far as they are concerned, their body bits are for pooing and weeing, largely. Whilst they have that innocence I think we should rejoice in that - why are we so keen to take that innocence away and force our children into the "real world"? They are children for such a short time, why make it any shorter?

psychomum5,no I don't think all children are the same.I don't think a 7 year-old will be damaged by sex ed delivered in a sensitive way at school and I don't think any parent can categorically say their child does not masturbate (actually I find the word "fiddle" really strange).

southeastastra,I think learning about your body and how it works is probably more important than maths, because its so important for a child to learn to love and respect their body and not feel frigthened perhaps by feelings they feel and that noone else talks about.

Rhubarb, a child is a sexual being, but their sexuality is very different from an adults sexuality. I think its important to recognise that children are sexual and respect their sexuality rather than deny it.
My children are sexual beings, but that does not make them less innocent or less children. Childrens sexuality IS innocent and nothing to be scared of.

Sorry but as a criminal law student, I know the terms and arguments that paedos use, and one of them is that children are sexual beings and enjoy sex and being touched.

I think we need to do more to protect our children. Not too much, but describing them as sexual beings just sends shivers down my spine. I think I know what you mean, but I would not use your wording.

I don't think anyone can categorically say that masturbation is normal in 7yos either - how do they know? Have they done a survey?

ok that's what you think, but can you not see why i'd rather they waited a few more years?

why is 'fiddle' a strange word??

I fiddle with my hair when I am tired, DD1 fiddles with her blanket when she is tired....DS1 fiddles with his willy when he is tired.

mastubation used in relation to children is STRANGE IMO.

I very much doubt experts on child development talk about childrens sexuality using terms like fiddle. Personally it makes me more uncomfortable when adults deny that their children have a sexuality because it makes me think they themselves don't see it as innocent and natural.

I am Swedish and having this discussion with British parents does make me laugh. I cannot imagine an average Swedish parent going into school saying "my child does not masturbate. Don't scare him!" LOL

And btw, I have never said a child is interested in se x. That's your own interpretation of my words, which qwuite frankly speaks volume

I am no prude, and our children are being brought up with no taboos around sex. I have no problems with children being taught the facts of sex at school.

But I don't agree that children are sexual beings. I think that that (pretty Freudian) position of thinking children are sexual beings has been widely discredited.

I can't believe people would object. It's fantastic that this is being taught in a sensitive manner. I was certainly 'fiddling' at that age and felt quite ashamed. This type of education would have been fabulous for me. Your children might be already and if they are not then they will be soon

If you want to talk to your children than do it as well. Education from home and school will only help even more. However, there will be loads of prents who refuse and this is why it is essential that it is taught at school.

If you don't like it then take them out of the class or keep thm off that day - but all the other children will be talking about it anyway. In fact some are probably talking about it anyway and have the facts all wrong so it is far better than someone puts them right.

I am quite happy for the "plumbing" to be taught in schools (even at quite a young age) with no values attached to it. We will teach the values.

Its TRUE that it does feel nice to touch your clitoris, why shouldn't they know this? It also is quite telling that nobody seems to mind that boys play with their willies and it feels nice but if a girl gets the same information then it is a bit uncomfortable?

DS is 4 and he has a vague idea about how babies a made and he certainly knows how nice it is to touch his willy.

As for teenage pregnancies I think teenagers are going to have sex, there are exceptions, but they are just that exceptions. I think we need to teach kids that their bodies are their OWN and they don't have to share them if they don't absolutely want to and that they need to THINK before sharing their bodies with someone.

Also I echo Fairymum's question, how on earth do you know that your children don't masturbate? (and why is it bad if they do?)

Let's not delve into whose child masturbates and whose does not - that is not the issue here at all and has nothing whatsoever to do with this. Frankly I feel angry that I am being asked to prove that my children do not!

My personal opinion is that children of 5 years of age do not need to be told about the clitoris going hard and feeling nice. Why is this relevant to a 5yo?

I have NOTHING against sex ed in schools, I generally think it is a good idea as some parents are hesitant to broach the subject at home. HOWEVER I want to see the video in its entirety - which they said was not possible. I want to know how they will teach personal safety and as far as telling them about touching the clitoris or the willy because it feels nice, well I feel that is irrelevant for very young children.

I know that having a really good crap can often feel nice, but I don't feel the need to tell my kids that. Tell them the basics by all means, tell them how babies are born and the names of body parts at that age, then from 7 years of age, expand on that. But for me, this is far too much information for MY children, too soon.

These are my kids. I don't want my control as a parent taken away from me. There's far too much of that already.

Some of you think it's ok for your kids. But as you can see, there are others who think it isn't. It's a shame that the government cannot find a middle ground rather than just saying, well this is what we are going to do so like it or lump it.

I think when you look at a lot of the abuse cases that have gone on, young children have been targetted who had no idea about their body and what was where and what was right or wrong.

Hence.

So why did the video not contain any clips of how they teach them personal safety?

I'm sorry but I don't think sex ed stops abuse at all. In fact we were informed that some children may get upset during it because of abuse at home and the teachers would look out for that.

I don't think that a 5yo knowing what a clitoris was, would stop abuse - do you?

There was great objeciton to it here for 10 year olds once.
I don't care - its liek a knee isn't it.
think of it that way.
Am very open wiht kids.

So am I, or so I thought. But I don't this overloading of information. Children are just children, why drag them into the adult world too quickly? If you gave a biology lesson to 5yos, how do you think they would react? Would it be of any use at all?

What's the point of telling them that certain things feel nice if you are not going to teach them personal safety? And how many of these very young children would listen? I know it would have scared the pants off me.

But that's just it, some people seem to think that all children are the same and it's fine to teach all children within a 3 year age bracket the same thing. That doesn't happen with any other lesson in school so why is it happening with this one?

I am actually quite shocked that they would aim this stuff at kids so young. When I saw your thread title I assumed it would be aimed at year 5 or 6, certainly not 4 year olds or even 7 year olds.

I have two 7 year old girls and I would not like their school to be showing them this sort of in-depth stuff. Neither of them are ready for it and I strongly feel that it is up to me and DH to deal with their questions and queries as they arise, not the school. Not at this age anyway, older would be ok.
We're very open with them and they know about periods and have a rough idea of how a baby is made, but this is because they have asked me, in their own time, not had it forced on them.

As for most 7 year olds 'masturbating', I'm pretty sure mine don't, as indeed I didn't at 7, not that I'd have a problem with it.

That's it sandyballs, this is the kind of subject that your children are either ready to hear at a certain age, or not. To lump 5-7yos together is just wrong, wrong, wrong. Some will be ready to hear it, others will not.
My children are not. I know this because I am their mother. I shall have no hesitation in telling them when they are ready. But I feel that is my decision, not the schools.

i am heartened that so many parents don't want this part of parenting taken away from them as i hope that you can see the increasing intrusive government in bringing up your children.

i am all for sex ed at home and in schools. in partnership.

i am pretty confident sexually, and i have no idea why a 7 year old needs to know the name for a clitoris.

why not? Its you who is making it a big deal. WHat is the difference between a vagina and a clitoris?

I do think a proprtion of parents think they are open abotu sex until it comes to the point of hte penis going in etc.

It's ok to say THE OLD " "When you really love someone " etc to small kids, btu the reality of what you NEED to tell them is different.

My 7yo dd knows that the penis goes into the woman and releases sperm to make her pregnant.

My 5yo ds knows that a baby does not come out of the bellybutton but out of the ladies bottom (I haven't drawn a diagram) and that the man and lady make a baby together with special hugs.

That information is relevant to them, for their age. I answered them when asked and elaborated when I felt they were old enough to understand more.

My dd knows what a vagina is, but a vagina is not a clitoris, and as yet I haven't told her because she isn't quite ready to know every single name for every single bit of her privates.

So at what point do you think I'm making a big deal out of this? Because I disagree with you? If you think it's fine for your kids then great! But I don't. And I'd appreciate my views on parenting my own kids to be respected and listened to.

I don't really see it as the teachers teaching the children that touching feels nice. I haven't seen the video in question obviously, but from what I remember from my own school days, it was more like "boys have willies and sometimes it can feel nice to touch it".
I don't think that comes as a suprise to most children to be honest. Children explore their bodies. Its a natural part of their development. I very much doubt the teachers are going to have long lessons and go into graphic details. Reading some posts you'd think the teachers was planning to masturbate in front of the kids or something.

Why FM, are we going hysterical? Really?

lol

No you can say what your beliefs are of course but I reserve the right to disgree... I think.

I don't see what (apart from Victorian led prudery) means that one may not identify a " rude bit" of the anatomy.

It's like ankles being seen as suggestive.

You're the first person to mention the word prude.

Of course I must be though, I don't want my children, at the ages of 4.8 and 8 to be overloaded with information on sex. I don't feel that too much info at their young ages is appropriate. I want to make these kinds of decisions myself, as their mother.

And for that I'm a prude.

Well then so bloody be it.