Sex Education in Primary Schools - I've been to the meetings and I still feel uncomfortable, is it just me?

[Rhubarb]

I sat through a meeting last night about the kind of sex education that will be provided to our children, starting from Reception up to Year 6.

I agreed with everything the guy from the Education Dept said, about openess and focusing more on relationships and emotions etc. Then they showed up clips of the video they'll be using to teach the kids. So far so good.

In the section aimed at 5-7 year olds it showed a cartoony illustration of a girl's bits and went through the names - this leads to the vagina, this is a clitoris. Then it said "the clitoris is a small bump at the front, it can sometimes get hard and this can feel nice" - we weren't shown but apparently the video says the same thing for the boys. An audible gasp and murmurs rose up from us, the parents.

For the age bracket 7-9 they add the words "if you touch it, it can feel nice".

Myself and some other parents felt uncomfortable with this and we had a discussion with him at the end. Everything he said seemed to make sense, about not making sex seem dirty, it's natural, it feels nice etc. Not being ashamed of their body parts, and focusing on the fact that girls can feel nice as well as boys.

So why do I still feel uncomfortable with this bit? I don't think I would have an issue with that aimed at older children, say in Year 6. But for this age, I have this niggly feeling that just isn't right.

So often as parents we can only rely on our instincts and we are told to follow them as much as possible. Yet when it comes to sex ed we are told that our instincts are just our hangups about sex and to ignore our feelings and trust what they are saying.

So I wondered what you lot had to say about it all?

Rhubarb, I'm in no way disagreeing with you, per se. I do think that it's generally a good idea but I do agree that it's necessary to be careful about how the information is given to our children. I just think that it is more empowering (especially for girls) to know about these things & not feel worried or embarrassed by them than to not.

I think that at least part of the reason that some children seem less open to the realities of these things is to do with the attitude at home - for example some families all walk around the house naked, whereas others have never seen a family member in anything less than a full state of dress. Of course most people fall somewhere between the two extremes, but the more protected the children are at home, the less they're likely to know. That doesn't necessarily mean that they're less ready to know, just that they've had less opportunity to.

Good question! Well luckily dd has approached me before to ask me about things and I've never not broached a topic she's asked about. So I'm pretty sure she would tell me.

Ds thinks nothing of doing everything in front of us - he'll go for a poo in a public place and leave the door wide open so he can talk to us. He's not likely to hide it if he starts to fiddle either - so far he's not done so.

I never fiddled as a child. It never occured to me to do so.

Springy - the kids often come in and talk to us whilst we have a bath. Dh and I both agreed that we'd be as open as we could be with our kids. Dh has taken ds into the toilets to explain how to wee and both the kids have seen me changing sanitary towels, so they both know what a period is.

I agree to some extent about the home environment, but I also think that some children are naturally late developers and in those way, less emotionally mature.

I've got to pick the kids up now, will come back to this later. Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts, it really does help to discuss these things with others!

I don't see what harm it would do a late developer to be told that "it can feel nice to touch your clitoris". Not exactly the same as "you have now got to go and touch your clitoris", is it? If the child isn't interested they can just shrug their shoulders and go 'ok, I don't think it sounds very nice so I won't bother'. It's not as if the school told them this is something they have to do at a certain age.

Besides, how emotionally mature do you have to be to touch yourself? I know lots of toddlers who do it.

The thing is, even if they do think that everyone is doing it and they'll have a go - there's no problem in that. From what you have said the video explains that it's natural. My 2 (ds and dd) have been fiddling since they were toddlers - so it's not down to maturity.

Well I've just come back from an interesting school run. I met a few other parents who were at the same meeting and asked them how they felt - they all said they felt uncomfortable with this information being given to children of that age. They felt it was too much, too soon.

Amongst the concerns were those of feeling as though the decisions as to what is appropriate at what age is being taken away from the parents. Some parents feel that this is ok for their kids, others feel it is not, but we are not being given a real choice in the matter.

A lot of the concerns were raised my men, dispelling the notion that only mothers of daughters were concerned.

A father said it was another example of the government taking control away from the parents.

Others said they felt that their concerns were not being listened to or taken on board and that made them feel angry.

I'm going to arrange a meeting with the headmistress. Because even if you feel wholeheartedly that this is the right thing to do, you do have to take into account the concerns of parents and very often all we want is to feel as though we are being listened to.

Rhubarb, I'm with you. I am very at ease about talking about sex with my children. And I think its something to be embraced - at the right time. 4 is not the time! If they ask me a question, I will tell them the answer. That is the right time! I would be shocked if that was being presented to my child before he was ready to hear and understand it. There is all this bollocks about not teaching your kids to read too early but lets talk about the finer details of sexual pleasure! To me, bonkers. I wouldn't be happy with that at all. They should spend more time taking them outdoors and playing catch at 4, not talking about fanjos in my opionion.

Well the bit in question was aimed at 5-7 year olds. My ds will be 5 in a couple of weeks and he's still, essentially, a baby. I agree that they don't need to know that at their age. They aren't feeling guilty if they are fiddling, they aren't capable of the stigmas we adults transfer onto things.

Fine, talk about names for body parts, talk about feelings and emotions, but to delve into what is a clitoris and how it can feel, or what is an erection is just too soon. There will be boys present who will not have erections and may feel confused by this information.

We are told as parents not to let our children grow up too soon, not to burden them with grown-up emotions, and yet are we not burdening them with things they cannot comprehend at that age? Because we are fearful, still, of sex ourselves and what it can lead to, therefore we are trying to get rid of that burden by overdoing the "it's only natural!" card.

Am I missing something?

'I'm worried that they might think "Oh, everyone else is doing that so I'll have a go".' Would it really be so bad if they did?

That's not the issue - read my last post.

I'm not fearful of sex in the slightest - I don't feel burdened by anything like that.

Me neither, but in my mind there is a huge difference between the understanding of a 5 year old and a 7 year old. Yet some of these resources are aimed at that age range. You will be talking to young children who have no real understanding of what you are talking about.

Surely the school should only be telling children things when the children are of the age to understand what they are being told?

And surely parents should be able to maintain some degree of control? I'd like to decide when my children are old enough to hear about those things, I don't want that decision taken away from me by the government or anyone else.

that's way too much information at that age ime!

Thanks southy. I'm heartened to hear that it's not just me who thinks that. And I do feel that our opinions, even if they are in the minority, should be heard and listened to.

ok, just been linked to this from my thread (thanks rhuby).

I have to say, I am not comfortable with this reasoning of the government that young children need to learn about sex.

why

why do they need to know???

they (IMHO) are still to young while in infant school.....junior school is still early too IMO but I admit that for those 'early' developers they need to start learning about it.

but why at 4/5/6....surely it is better to teach them body parts, tell them that they are attached to them and so only they should have control over their bodies, and leave it at that.

the way rhuby describes the dvd and the language smacks very much of the language some very clever paedophiles would use to 'groom' their 'children', and for that reason alone it makes me shudder.

I may be wildly off the point here, but that is the feeling I get.

They did say that personal safety would be discussed - about what is appropriate and what is not. But this wasn't included in the DVD clips we saw and again, I'd be worried that this might frighten young children too.

We did all ask if we could see the DVD in its entirety before it was shown to children, and were refused because apparently they only had the one copy and couldn't loan it out to individual parents

seriously....one copy???

surely they should have a way of being able to loan it out so that we as parents can sit and talk about it with our children properly, in the comfort of home.

I am happy to allow my yr6 children to learn.....by then we have talked about it at home anyway so in the main, they know and understand before they see it at school, but not smaller than that.

Yup, one copy and books to go with it that they failed to show us.

How can I, as a parent, do my job properly when I'm not told what they are being taught at school?

As a catholic I refused to let my children go to a catholic school as I believe that religious education should come from home, I didn't want them being told things that I disagreed with. Same for sex ed, I don't want my children being told things that I don't feel they are ready for. Trouble with too much information is that once you've told them something, you can never take it back. And I want that part of my kids education to come from us, in our own home.

I don't mind the school topping up their sex ed, but not to tell them things against my wishes.

Both of my DC have recently had esx education. DD is 9 and found it very interesting and is happy to discuss what she learned about (periods, wet dreams, relationships)
DD who is 6 is a bit embarressed about what he learned. He probably doesn't get why he has to change the names he calls things. He is perfectly happy to use boobies and nuts lol!

I tend to put my faith in the school and will be open with my kids with any questions they come home with. So far, there have been none!

Rhubarb - I think your posts come across as very sensible, and I couldn't agree more. Nobody wants their child to grow up with hang-ups about sex - but I am convinced that this is too much information, too soon. Why on earth can't we be trusted to give our children the information they need, when they ask for it?

On the whole, sex ed is like any other education. Children comprehend it best when they are ready. If you try to tell them before they're ready to hear it, it could confuse and upset them. Those who do need to know will almost certainly have already asked their parents, and will likely have received sensitive and age-appropriate information from the person who matters more to them than anyone else (namely you - not a teacher!) - which makes a DVD rather redundant.

Children all develop at different rates. Personally, I'd have been anxious if I'd been told anything much at five!

i've not heard anything about sex education for my 7 year old son. they have to tell you they're covering it don't they?

I got a letter sent home for my children. I had the option of withdrawing them from the lesson if i wasn't happy for them to be a part of it.

I think it was a case of if I didn't return the letter, they assumed I didn't mind.

Yes, they said they'd send out a letter so that those who want to withdraw can do so.

But pretty soon the government will bring in new rules that will make sex ed compulsory, so as a parent you won't even be given the choice.

Thanks for the support, it's helped make my mind up.

I would not have a problem with this for 7 year-olds. Children are sexual beings too, but of course their sexuality is very different from adults. I think adults are often uncomfortable with childrens sexuality. Its normal for a 7 year-old to masturbate and they might wonder what its called what they are doing. Maybe its nice for someone to tell them its normal and if they feel shy about it, it might be better to sit at the back of the class and just listen to a teachers than having the conversation with a parent who thinks its awkward. I think if done in a sensitive way it can only help children to understand whats going on with their bodies and feel confident that their feelings are normal.

My mum told me that I discovered masturbation when I was around 5ish and I wanted to teach everyone because it was so nice.