Sex Education in Primary Schools - I've been to the meetings and I still feel uncomfortable, is it just me?

[Rhubarb]

I sat through a meeting last night about the kind of sex education that will be provided to our children, starting from Reception up to Year 6.

I agreed with everything the guy from the Education Dept said, about openess and focusing more on relationships and emotions etc. Then they showed up clips of the video they'll be using to teach the kids. So far so good.

In the section aimed at 5-7 year olds it showed a cartoony illustration of a girl's bits and went through the names - this leads to the vagina, this is a clitoris. Then it said "the clitoris is a small bump at the front, it can sometimes get hard and this can feel nice" - we weren't shown but apparently the video says the same thing for the boys. An audible gasp and murmurs rose up from us, the parents.

For the age bracket 7-9 they add the words "if you touch it, it can feel nice".

Myself and some other parents felt uncomfortable with this and we had a discussion with him at the end. Everything he said seemed to make sense, about not making sex seem dirty, it's natural, it feels nice etc. Not being ashamed of their body parts, and focusing on the fact that girls can feel nice as well as boys.

So why do I still feel uncomfortable with this bit? I don't think I would have an issue with that aimed at older children, say in Year 6. But for this age, I have this niggly feeling that just isn't right.

So often as parents we can only rely on our instincts and we are told to follow them as much as possible. Yet when it comes to sex ed we are told that our instincts are just our hangups about sex and to ignore our feelings and trust what they are saying.

So I wondered what you lot had to say about it all?

i'm sure my son has no idea it's for anything other than weeing through

it would confuse him alot i imagine.

for ds(15) we had a meeting about it when he was in year five, that's early enough imo.

Fairymum, are you not tainting everyone with the same brush? As I said, a 5yo is far less mature than a 7yo and I'm not happy for a 5yo to learn about the clitoris and that it can feel nice. Not every child masturbates (what a horrible word to use for what a child does!), I never did and I'm pretty sure my children don't. Equally I don't want my children to feel afraid by all of this information.

The crux of my argument is that I want to be able to decide, as a parent, when my children are ready to be told certain things. I do not want to be told by the government or school when my child is ready. I think I know my child better than they do.

I'd say that it was a moot point whether 7-y-os "masturbate". I'd have thought that masturbation had a specific sexual intention, and that 7-y-os are simply exploring and finding out what feels nice/consoling - not setting out to gratify their sexual urges.

Rhubarb: I think you are exactly right. You as a parent should decide what your children are told and when. You know your children: nobody else does. Stick to your guns!

rhuby, I am with you 100% on this.....I want to tell my children in my time, in my wording, in my way.

it is not for the teachers/schools/government to decide when and how my children learn.

Yes I agree there is a difference between a 5 year-old and a 7 year-old. But i think at 7 many children will already have masturbated for a long time and have questions.

What is so horrible with the word masturbate? How can you know your children don't do it? I think if you are a child of a parent who have such issues with childrens sexuality, its great the schools are doing some sex ed.

My friend works in a nursery and she says its completely normal that some children masturbate from they are toddlers.

Thanks guys!

You've given me the push I needed. I'll meet with headteacher tomorrow. Just relieve that I'm not the only one who feels this way. You are told so many times that your concerns are products of your own hang-ups, so you are brainwashed into going with the majority because you don't want to be criticised, or have your own morals scrutinised, or be accused of being prudish and over-sensitive. It's an emotive subject and I think people need to respect other peoples thoughts and feelings on the subject. We all have the same goal, we just go about it in different ways.

I also think britain is a country where a lot of parents are in denial about their childrens sexuality or think they are not sexual before they are mor eor less teenagers. If they have not gradually learnt to be confident about, like and understand their bodies, then they are sudddenly thrown into the world of sexuality via teenage magazines etc which are amongst the most graphics I have seen on sexuality compared to most countries I know.

Hence the high teenage pregnancy rate I THINK.

I think the point is that these posts ARE so sensible - the fact that you're asking these questions in the first place shows a much greater willingness to discuss these topics that could be found in a lot of households - that's the important difference.

Hear hear, Springy!

Fairymum - some!

What would you do with those who don't? Would you question their upbringing?

Your attitude is exactly what I'm on about. Why can't you see that not every child is the same, not every child does things at the same age. Just as you might get some children reading by the age of 4 and others not being able to read by the age of 7. They all get there in the end though, they just have different ways and different paces.

I know my children, I know how I was a child and I still insist, that as their mother, I have the right to teach my children about sex in my own time, when I deem it is right to do so.

You'll see in my earlier posts that I am not against sex education, in fact I argued with fircone for it. But it should just cover the basics at their young age, let us parents decide if they are old enough to hear about the details. Sex ed at schools should be a supplement. I'm aware some children are told nothing, and for them sex ed is vital. But even then if you tell them too much, too soon, it can lead to problems, fear and confusion.

i agree rhubarb. fairymum my 7 year old just doesn't it's a fact.

teenage pregnany rates have more complex reasons for occuring, it's easy to just say we're all repressed.

You guys have actually made me feel so much better! I was afraid that my own sexual hang-ups would be scrutinised and that I would be told I was inefficient as a mother, old fashioned and would damage my childrens lives by questioning their sex ed. You've made me feel normal and sane - thank you!

I just think its very strange for a parent to categorically say that "my child does not masturbate and that's a fact".

IMHO, teenage pregnancy rates do not occur because of a lack of sexual education. Many teenagers are aware of sex and contraception. I think it's a lack of love and respect in some cases. Not to mention society's unhealthy interest in all things sex related. Just look at any girl mag and you'll find articles on having orgasms, when to shag your boyfriend, ways to please a boy etc etc. Newspapers have lurid photos on their front pages, Reality shows try to be the first to film a bit of real sex (do they ever mention safe sex when filming in the Big Brother house?) and they zoom in on bikini-clad women gyrating.

Then we bang on about teenage pregnancies - what a bloody hypocritical society we are!

High Street stores sell thongs for 7yos as well as padded bras and t-shirts that say "porn star" on them. I think we've done a very good job of sexualising our children.

lol fgs i can see him all the time he's loud until his sleeps.

Fairymum, I think it's very strange for someone to categorically say that all 7yos masturbate.

Yes I agree with you there Rhubarb. The funny thing for me an a non-Brit is how sexualised this country is, but in a perverted way. Not in a natural way. People get worked up over sex ed in schools. I get worked up about the things you mention in your last post, but not about children being taught how their bodies work/how babies are made etc I see no connection.

"Fairymum, I think it's very strange for someone to categorically say that all 7yos masturbate."

I ahve not said this. But i think its completely normal for many 7 year-olds to masturbate and its part of their life. I remember it as a really nice part of my llife at that age and why not? I have seen my children masturbate and I am glad I feel natural about it. I am glad they enjoy their bodies.

only read op and sounds bizarre

my kids had some sex ed in yr 6 i think - could have been 5

before that i think too early to comprehend a lot of it properly

DD went catholic and i am sorry if i pffend catholics but we LOL at what they called sex 'education'

Well, then I would say you have hang-ups about childrens sexuality. This is why your child needs the government

I'm fine with telling them all that Fairymum. As soon as my dd asked, when I was pregnant with ds, I told her how the baby would come out. She saw me breastfeed, she knows about my periods. Like korma I've had this drip drip approach. I never leave a question unanswered and I will talk about things very openly and honestly.

But as their mother I know what they can understand and what they can't. So I'm able to appropriate the information accordingly. The school isn't able to do that.

I never masturbated as a child. It never occured to me to do so. My dd and my ds don't fiddle. It's not something I think they would do in private as we've taught them both that their bodies are beautiful and nothing to be ashamed of, in fact ds delights in pooing with the door wide open. So I think if either of them fiddled - I would know about it.

And I don't like using the word masturbate in this context because it's too "adult", children don't fiddle for quite the same reasons as we would. They are curious, they might think it feels nice, but it's certainly NOT masturbation in the sense that we know it.

fairymum.....it seems to me that you have think all children are the same.

well, let me tell you, out of my five, none are the same.

my DS1 could be said to be highly sexulised.....he is very aware of himself and he does play with himlself, but at no point would I say he 'mastubated'...he just plays and fiddles.

as for my others.......DS2 only tonight came out with something shockin......before that I would have said he would not even be aware of his willy (well, bar the fact that he has noticed that his and his brothers are different shapes......his brother has a foreskin that comes back fully now where-as DS2's still is very tight), but my girls........well, they know about how babies are made and the proper names for all their girly bits, but beyond that that would not play or fiddle at 7.

now, maybe.......my 14yo is certainly aware, as is my 12yo, and I answer all their questions as they come......10yo DD3 however...she has just started the same sex ed the older girls did at that age.

what is this obsession in this country to cram as much information into a child as fast as quickly as possible. reach targets no matter how ready they are.

good for you fairymum but if you feel so strongly about it you can explain yourself to your child, i'd rather he spent his time at school learning important stuff, like maths and english