Is there anyone here who doesn't 'do' the whole Father Xmas thing...

[TattooedGrrrl]

...or the tooth fairy / Easter bunny etc?

DH and i were discussing whether to do the Father Xmas thing with our kids (they are very small at the moment), and we don't really see the point. We DO celebrate on Xmas Day, but we aren't religious. We do have gifts and a special meal, but we don't really buy into the heavily commercial side of it all.

If you don't do it, do you get much bother from family / friends? Does it cause problems with school friends who 'believe' in him?

(and please, i am NOT critising anyone who DOES do it, i'm just wondering how parents who don't find it)

jooly

we had no roof last year and it was freezin and ds was overdue

im the same "it will be perfect this year" and lol at your lampoons idea.i TOTALLY get that!
x

I just don't see the correlation Cory, we do read fantasy stories (in fact I would say 85% of my book collection is fantasy) - but we don't tell him that trolls are real and are going to come into his house at night.

Santa Claus is a myth, an old fashioned story and I am quite happy with that in its context as a story, what I am NOT happy to do is to tell MY son (and I don't care what others tell their kids) that he is a real person who brings gifts.

DS thinks Stargate is possibly the best show EVER, but he knows that goulds are not real in the same way that he knows that Santa is a story and that he isn't real.

I have WAY too much time on my hands this week!

I agree with Morloth - there's a world of difference between stories, make-believe play, and telling your child in all sincerity that something is real when you do not believe it is. People can choose which of those to do about FC with their own children without either "lying" or "being a killjoy".

I haven't seen anyone on here saying they don't "do" Christmas. Just that they choose to make the day special and, yes, "magical" in their own ways, some of them going to great lengths to provide "evidence" of the existence of FC, others being "honest", and others finding a middle way where they go along with the story to a greater or lesser extent.

Personally I never told DS that FC was real.

But I told him that Christmas was a time of great celebration because God chose to become incarnate as a human being, and be born to a very ordinary young couple in a stable in Bethlehem, and there was a star to light the way and shepherds who came to worship him.

Who needs anything more wonderful and transcendent than that?

I think, judging from threads on here, that a lot of people would put the birth of Jesus in the same league as FC. Luckily people are free to choose. I go for the wonder and magic.

FC in our house is mainly a kindly old gentleman who delivers gifts to people on Christmas Eve. Parents, family and friends choose the gifts. Some choose to send them to FC for him to deliver. FC usually brings one gift of his own too. We don't do stockings.

DD also knows the true meaning of Christmas and we are happy both can go hand in hand at our house.

Exactly, AMuminScotland, not having Santa does't mean that

magic and imagination are eradicated.

You are right AbbeyA, lots of people do believe that the birth of Jesus is on par with a fairy story, I have no problem with that.

The difference IMO is that the people who DO believe in the Jesus story actually believe it to be a true version of events, so that in telling that story to their children they are not telling them a "story" but what they believe to be a true historical fact, whether it is or not is a matter of opinion.

Whereas with the FC thing, the people telling their children do not actually believe that there really is a fat old guy with a beard who comes down the chimney at night and leaves presents. But they are presenting something that is patently do not believe to be true as the truth. You really think people who have a problem doing this are taking something away from their children?

Sorry, middle sentence should read:

"But they are presenting something that they do not be to be true as the truth."

Sentence got a bit chopped and changed.

but surely anyone who doesn't believe in the birth of jesus shouldn't be celebrating christmas! that is the whole point of the day is it not?

that is my whole point- we celebrate christmas as a religious festival- not as a comercial event which must be how family's who aren't religious see it.

I had a whole argument last Christmas with atheists who said that Christians had stolen the day of an earlier festival. I think you will find that the birth of Jesus, being central to Christmas, is more contentious than FC!!

Let's have the birth of Jesus/Solstice argument again, it'll warm us up.

The FC was has been hard enough!

Sorry one not was!

When Rome etc. I am happy to join in any local cultural festivities, within limits of personal taste, wherever I am living. When I lived in Eqypt I celebrated Eid and hung Ramadan lanterns, and ate Coptic Xmas dinner. The midwinter festical does predate Xianity and in any case is a popular cultural tradition. I quite like to sing a few carols, atheist though I am. I know that annoys some xians but, frankly, I don't much care, that's their business.

We have the story of the nativity and actually I prefer that as a central theme to Xmas than FC and would give it more emphasis - but just as a story/fable. Myths and fables have long been carriers of moral messages - I have no problem with that.

I'm undecided exactly how to play the FC card. Dd's only 3. We are big on fantasy in general so it is a dilemma.

I don't have very strong memories of Xmas at all. I think it was often very tense - a lot of families fight a lot at Xmas, I read somewhere.

Oh yes, we happily stole the date from the midwinter solstice - instead of the pagans celebration of light coming back into the world with the turning of the year, we hijacked it as the date to celebrate "light" coming into the world with the birth of Jesus.

If people want to celebrate their "midwinter festival" in a way which doesn't have much (or any) relationship with Christianity, then they are very welcome to go for it, and it doesn't even bother me if they call it "Christmas".

The difference for me is that I genuinely do believe that Jesus Christ was born and we should celebrate it... though it was probably in Spring rather than midwinter, specially if there were lambs around

Morloth on Thu 30-Oct-08 08:58:17
"I just don't see the correlation Cory, we do read fantasy stories (in fact I would say 85% of my book collection is fantasy) - but we don't tell him that trolls are real and are going to come into his house at night.

Santa Claus is a myth, an old fashioned story and I am quite happy with that in its context as a story, what I am NOT happy to do is to tell MY son (and I don't care what others tell their kids) that he is a real person who brings gifts."

What I tried to explain (no doubt badly) is that not all parents who do FC tell the myth in all sincerity in the same way as you would tell them that 2+2 makes 4.

As parents we bring teddies and dolls in to the house and we do speak about them as if they were in some sense alive. You might never actually point out to your child that Teddy is not alive and can't understand you- the fact that you don't and that you may even pretend to speak to Teddy doesn't mean you're lying. A child who plays with the teddy you gave them is not a child who has been conned and lied to, but a child who is deliberately suspending disbelief. Because the suspension of disbelief can be fun.

In a similar way, my dc's know perfectly well that granddad dresses up as FC- the first time they asked me I did not try to hide it- but we all enjoy suspension of disbelief.

AbbeyA on Thu 30-Oct-08 09:53:06
"I had a whole argument last Christmas with atheists who said that Christians had stolen the day of an earlier festival."

Don't need to be an atheist to believe that. I am a Christian but also a historian; I am well aware that there were major festivals at this time in the countries in which Christianity first grew and that many of the Christian traditions around Christmas are remarkably similar to those of the earlier festivals. The Church Fathers don't call this sort of thing stealing, they call it borrowing, citing the passage in Leviticus where an Israelite may take a foreign wife provided he first has her shorn of everything foreign.

The red coated, reindeer gliding, present bringing version of Santa is a US import, dating from the 1860s and 70s.

I actually found it very interesting-I learned a lot.

anyone mentioned coca-cola yet??

I think there has always been a midwinter festival hasn't there? Has gone through many "incarnations".

I do understand what you are saying Cory, sorry if that didn't come through!

To each their own is my opinion, but I will be honest and say that I don't much like being called a killjoy for following my own traditions which don't include lying to my son about the existence of Santa.

It can be a total pain sometimes on threads, when they change from being a discussion of the pros and cons of certain choices, of what people do and why, and the subtle nuances of people's traditions.... into an "us and them" argument with one corner shouting "LIARS" and the other shouting "KILLJOYS" as if there were two distinct camps and you have to choose to be one or the other ...

People have a range of approaches to FC, and Christmas as a whole, based partly on what their own families did and whether or not they have happy memories of it - so what's new?

i got caught with glitter in my hand last year making foot prints.ds1 said mummy what are you doing?i said making a card for granny and i dropped the glitter.so im unsure about footprints this year.ds1 will assume ive been clumsy again.

I think it helps to discuss these things-there are times when I change my views.

I agree Abbey. It helps to clarify why I think as I do and whether in fact I'd prefer to take a different perspective.