Who else thinks unconditional parenting is a load of twaddle?

[Pheebe]

OK, now I have your attention ... Firstly I don't...necessarily...but have heard it talked about lots and have looked into it a little and have some 'questions'

How do you make it work in a real life family setting where things just have to get done? How do you make sure your kids make appropriate choices (seems to me you just hope for the best)? How do you avoid your kids growing up as selfish, self centered, spoilt? How do kids brought up this way deal with the rigid control systems of, for example, the school setting. Can the make the transition/separation between home and the outside world?

Hoping for a positive and useful discussion here not a tit for tat criticism of different parenting approaches.

Personally, having thought about how I parent it seems to the a mix of 'unconditional' (which I think would be better described as uncontrolling or some such) and so called 'sugar coated control' (which I think would be better described as directive??)

Anyway over to you...if anyones interested

Apostrophe, of course you say 'no' when your child reaches for the hob. (Then explain/remind why I assume).

But what's the problem with standing in the bath?

The UP book advises you to question what we forbid.

Moondog, please can you give us the reasons why it is often cited as a load of tripe. (What is your MSC?)

ABA.

?

Applied Behaviour Analysis. Would say much more but laptop only accepts tiny posts.

less reading and more doing might be the key

Never having read a childcare books in my life I was interested to see this from omdb:

" have read the book and alot of it is about encouraging your children to be what society calls 'well behaved' not because they will get a sticker or avoid a punishment because it is the right thing to do."

...because that is exactly my philosophy. Empathy is the most important thing you can teach a child. I'd go as far as to say that if you teach only one thing, that should be it. Because if you can empathise with other people sufficiently, most other things will follow. Not saying that I don't yell and stamp my feet () from time to time and there are times when I say 'because I say so' but those times are rare, and usually when I'm under pressure of time, or feeling stressed for some other reason. And usually followed by an apology and an explanation of why. As they get older I am amazed by how independent, grown-up and thoughtful they can be. Inspite of all the times I've been ratty, unreasonable, inconsistent . If you live by 'rules' surely you have to keep making new ones as circumstances change. If you expect everyone in the house to live with an eye to how their behaviour affects others as well as themselves, and a good dose of common sense thrown it, there isn't the need for rigid rules.

Great post, OI, perhaps you should consider writing, rather than reading one

OK, that makes sense. (Never heard of a P shaped bath!)

But my point is that the way I understand the book I don't think 'unconditional parenting' rules out NO.

The punishment and rewards thing is basically behaviourist. Whilst it MAY get results in the short term, it's probably not the best way to socialise people. Frost's approach is irritatingly simplistic. As with GF, it would be interesting to see if she treated her own children in the ways she advocates for others.

I'm not afan of parenting books but from the little I know about UP it seems to be underpinned or a least influenced by Carl Rogers work in Person-Centred Therapy and his core-conditions which are Unconditional Positive Regard, Empathic Understanding and Congruence. As a trainee counsellor I have found my skills as a therapist translate to my parenting abilities.

From what I gather UP is about regarding your children positively without condition. That doesn't mean without boundaries. Carl Rogers believed that human nature is essentially "good" and that with the right conditions we will thrive and fulfil our potential. Children will learn what is good or bad from our behaviour and our responses to them and others.

It's all very well this 'be nice because you want to' but useless IMO for helping a child on the autistic spectrum to understand social rules.
I think all these books are just counsels of perfection. Life is messier than books ever allow for.
Oh, and the testosterone surge in small boys thing is a total myth. It doesn't happen, and if it did it would trigger puberty. That Steve (idiot) Biddulph has a lot to answer for.

"Oh, and the testosterone surge in small boys thing is a total myth."

Well said.

Is that true, that the testosterone surge doesn't happen? Did Steve Biddulph make that up then?

The problem with relying on your instincts, is that many many people were parented incredibly badly and may not be aware of it. My parents were parented badly and in turn parented me badly. My instincts therefore, are not necessarily a template I can trust. I've had to do an awful lot of reading and researching to change my instincts. Those of us who are attempting to break a family cycle of abuse, violence, neglect etc. are jolly glad that there is all this pesky information out there, because our instincts may be the last things we should turn to.

MsDemeanor, I WAS wondering about this talk of testosterone surges, sounds rubbish to me. I agree with your feelings about parenting books in general. They are selling an ideal and shouldn't be used as a manual to which you search for the answer to every scenario in your families life.

Psychology is not an exact science and there are always new theories to explore.

Autism has it's own unique challenges for parents and children and I can imagine that these books are pretty useless in dealing with them.

LittleBella, I think you're right. Parenting books can be useful. I think a lot of people want to be better parents than our own were even if they weren't all that bad. There's usually room for improvement. I think that some people can become bogged down by "information" and many authors of these books are not experts, some are not even parents!

LittleBella, I think you're right. Parenting books can be useful. I think a lot of people want to be better parents than our own were even if they weren't all that bad. There's usually room for improvement. I think that some people can become bogged down by "information" and many authors of these books are not experts, some are not even parents!

Where did that idea about the testosterone surge come from in the first place then? Dis Biddulph do bad research?

I for one don't care - the point is it's hopelessly biologically reductionist.

I always love the "testosterone surge" bollocks. It's bollocks imho.
Whenever anyone has a naughty boy who's getting out of hand he's having a "testosterone surge" .Right

Yes, I'd guess he did make it up. I think he's an idiot anyway, but this is just fairy story stuff. Small boys all have very low testosterone levels that are incredibly stable right up to puberty, when they do shoot up, causing they physical changes that turn little boys into men. There is however a huge but brief testosterone surge soon after birth - but it's a bit mysterious as it obviously doesn't cause adolescence.
64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:WcZNhIef0tYJ:library.med.utah.edu/kw/human_reprod/lectures/pubertal_mi dlife/+do+testosterone+levels+change+in+infancy&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=36&gl=uk

Also, interestingly, in a case of a four year old who did have a testosterone surge (due to a tumour) he showed numerous physical signs of puberty (hair etc) but no signs of aggression/boisterousness at all.

OH. Disappointed now.

Guess DS1's behavious is just bad behavious then not hormone linked

'fraid so!