Who else thinks unconditional parenting is a load of twaddle?

[Pheebe]

OK, now I have your attention ... Firstly I don't...necessarily...but have heard it talked about lots and have looked into it a little and have some 'questions'

How do you make it work in a real life family setting where things just have to get done? How do you make sure your kids make appropriate choices (seems to me you just hope for the best)? How do you avoid your kids growing up as selfish, self centered, spoilt? How do kids brought up this way deal with the rigid control systems of, for example, the school setting. Can the make the transition/separation between home and the outside world?

Hoping for a positive and useful discussion here not a tit for tat criticism of different parenting approaches.

Personally, having thought about how I parent it seems to the a mix of 'unconditional' (which I think would be better described as uncontrolling or some such) and so called 'sugar coated control' (which I think would be better described as directive??)

Anyway over to you...if anyones interested

I have never known anyone more up for a fight than me until I came across Gateau.
She is right about too many manuals though.

It is bollocks though. Alfie Kohn regularly cited on my MSc course as load of tripe.

wheresthehamster what a fab idea hadn't thought of that. I was brought up with the '3/2/1 more sleeps til holiday/christmas/birthday' approach - DS1 loves that too. How lovely to condense it down like that. Will definitely try that one.

Ok, I think my parenting techniques are basically along the lines of UP, and as far as I'm aware that does not mean that there are no boundaries. Even as adults we all have boundaries so why would anyone assume children wouldn't?

There are boundaries that my DS cannot cross, or at least cannot cross at the moment. The boundaries are fluid and move and adapt as he gets older or more experienced etc.

There are also times when you just have to say no to children, regardless of what 'label' your particular parenting techniques could broadly fall under.

I don't think that UP approaches make it harder for children to settle into school, why would it?

As with all the advice out there for all aspects of our lives, parenting books are there to help and support, not there for us to follow by the letter. It's all about flexibility surely?

Oh yes, moondog - we fought last week, didn;t we?
But I see you havw agreed with me quite a lot today. Glad to see you don;t bear grudges. Now that's more like it.

yes moondog I think it is. You upset someone on a thread the other day I told here you swear at everyone and she shouldn't take it personally

Call that a fight Gateau???
Boy, you aint seen nuttin' yet!

Aye Kitty.

moondog start another thread and talk to me about food in Bdesh

thenk you

overmydeadbody so how do you handle it when your dcs push those boundaries?

I think where I'm at is that UP in its purest form seems just too fluid and flouncy to me although there's alot to it that resonates and works for us. I guess what I'm most interested in is how others handle the boundary pushing without it turning into all out conflict.

Pheebe what do you mean by push the boundaries though? give me some examples I can't think right now

Hmm ok, well tea time as an example, thats becoming a real battle ground for us. I NEVER insist DS eats all the food thats on his plate as I have no idea how hungry he is. However, I don't want him to sit and throw his food around, annoy his brother, kick us under the table etc etc. Meal times are important and I want us to sit together so I'm not comfortable just letting him say I don't want anything and whizzing off and playing. If I let him he wouldn't eat anything.

Kicking his brother is another favourite. He's 3 so telling him not to because it hurts etc lasts for all of 5 seconds.

God sounds like our house is chaos . Its not, but on the occassions when DS1 is in a 'disagreeable' mood, its really unpleasant.

hmmm, ok I only have the one DS so don't have the fighting issues, but three year old are like that aren't they? It's normal behaviour.

I would tell dS it's dinner time, that everyone sits at the table at dinner time, and once he's finished he needs to let me know and then clear his plate away otherwie I won't know he's finished and will not be able to wash his plate away.

At three they may get up after only a few mouthfuls, but by 5 or 6 they won't be.

Also, when DS left the table to play or was just jumping around beign silly, I just took his plate into the kitchen for him and if he complained, I'd tell him if he gets down from the table that means he's finished so can't have any more.

It's not telling him whatto do but it's making the situation one where it's in his best interests to behave in the way you want him to.

maybe I'm not really an 'unconditional parent' ala Alfie Kohn?

I find with the things that I need DS to do, I tell him, rather than asking him.

So not "do you wnt to come and sit down for supper now?" but more

"it's supper time. Come and sit down now".

That's not UP, or is it? I don't actually know, as I've read the books but just mould it into what suits DS and I best.

Yes, I agree its not unusual behaviour . I have been trying to insist he stays at the table til we all finish and when he doesnt it annoys me. I guess thats where I'm getting it wrong - letting it annoy me?? I like the idea of tidying his food away if he gets down, he can see the consequence immediately then and make the choice for himself. Thanks

Bedtimes is another potential flashpoint. We all love bedtimes, bath, jamies on stories and cuddles, non of that is an issue (surprisingly). But...now he's in a big bed some evenings he can be up and down for hours. We don't insist he goes to sleep straight away, he has his light on for a while on a timer and can read/play whatever...when the light goes off its time to settle down. Some nights he'll go straight off before the lights even off, off, others he can be up and down til 10 or even later. Getting enought sleep is sooo important that I feel this is a boundary too - obviously can't MAKE him fall asleep but how can we avoid getting cross???

It's typical behaviour for a 3 year old and tbh I think you may be expecting too much from him.

AS OMBD says, many 3 year olds will just eat a few mouthfuls and want to be off to play. I have done pretty much the same thing as OMDB with both of mine.

As for the kicking, you just have to repeat yourself ad nauseam. How old is your youngest child?

Me too, I can be VERY directive though (can't bring myself to say controlling ). I don't think I wholey want to be a UP, it wouldn't suit me or my DS1 certainly but I do want to be more gentle with him and give him more choices and control over his own life.

Mercy you may well be right, in fact I'm constantly telling DH that DS1 is only 3 don't be so hard on him lol

DS2 is 9 months (just) and is on the verge of walking. Everyone I know keeps saying how awful its going to be and how they're going to spend the next 10+ years fighting

I tihnk expecting a three year old to sit at the table until everyone has finished is a bit hard really and a bit too much to expect.Even if he does manage to stay in his seat, he will be bored so will find ways of occupying himself: fidgiting, kicking his brother etc. This may be something you have to introduce slowly,changing the boundaries as he gets older until eventually he can sit at the table until everyone has finished.

I don't make DS stay at the table until everyone has finished and he is 5. Sometimes he stays if there are lots of people, and chats, quite often if it is just him and I I let him go back to playing once he's eaten.

Same with bed. The only rule I have is for him to stay in his room and turn the light out before going to sleep. Sometimes I get very annoyed when I hear him still playing at 9:30pm and have an urge to go up and shout at him to go to sleep, but in the end it's not every night, sometimes he goes straight to sleep, but as you said you can't make them sleep anyway, so you might as well not make it into a battle that they then know will be guaranteed to get your attention. And no point being annoyed at something that you can't really control is there? Life's too short.

I like the term authoritative parenting!

Siblings do fight but it doesn't have to be constant - it's not going to be awful. Mine are 7 and 4½; a lot of the time they play together very well.

Have no idea about UP but I tend to do a fair bit of ignoring certain types of behaviour but praising others.

OMDB - we obviously have a very similar approach! I agree with a lot of what you say!

avoiding getting cross I guess is down to your attitude, and not relying on DS's behaviour to control how you feel, accepting that how you react to any situation is down to your control, rather than your DS's behaviour. If you say to yourself "I will not get irrationally cross or annoyed" than maybe you won't!

And remember that getting 'cross' doesn't actually stop the situation or makeit better or stop it from happening again, it just ruins your evening, so it's far easier to not get cros in the first place.

Gosh it's bloody easy to write this advice isn't it, how come I can't follow my own advice more often?

Mercy that's good to know, I guess if other parents are doing it similarly I'm not completely barking up the wrong tree!

Authoratative parenting - I like it yes, I think I'm going to back of...a bit especially with the sitting at the table thing. TBH I think I've been heading in the same direction as you but been held back by the worry that if I give an inch DS1 will take a mile. Love them both too much to want everything to be a battle, not why I had kids at all! Which is why I've been intrigued by the UP approach - the gentleness of it.

Mercy, glad to hear it isn't all necessarily doom and gloom. I want them to be each others best friend, obviously doens't matter what I want but I do hope they can at least be friends.

Pheebe would it helped if you viewed the fighting as 'leanging conflict resolution'? A mighty good skill to develop and will serve them well in adulthood?

Failing that, just repeat the mantra "this too will pass". They will not fight constantly for the next ten years. They will also play together, confide in each other, teach each other things, defend each other and gang up against you when they deam you to be being 'unfair'!