Elderly man made my children feel uncomfortable

[NeedyLimeMember]

Yesterday I visited my Grandma in the care home, with my two primary school aged daughters and my brother While we were there we had to wait in the corridor for a couple of minutes, during which an elderly man approached us and was talking to my children. He was very friendly and meant no harm, but it made my daughters feel uncomfortable. I interacted with him, so the girls didn't feel they needed to talk to him (not that they would - they are quite shy.) One of my girls was stood in front of me and I had my arm over her shoulder/chest holding her close and when the man got a little to close, or at one point kissed his fingers and went to touch her cheek, I discretely blocked him with my hand. My other daughter was further back and next to her Uncle.
I left feeling unsure whether I had done the right thing, because the last thing I want to do is normalise staying a situation that made them feel uncomfortable, just to appease an old man. But the alternative would have been rude and unkind as I'm sure there was no ill intent. We has a conversation when we got home about listening to their body if they feel uncomfortable especially due to a man, and it being ok to step back from someone and say 'you're making me feel uncomfortable.' But in this situation that wasn't how I handled it - I'm not necessarily thinking I did the wrong thing but I really want them to be able to advocate for themselves in a situation where someone crosses a boundary. I wondered what people's thoughts are on dealing with these kind of situations and conversations?

@NeedyLimeMember I think if you're having conversations with them about trusting their instincts etc that's fine - you also didn't push them to interact and you blocked him from actually touching them... like you say, likely no ill intent, but you picked up on their discomfort and managed the situation, so I'd say it was fine? If you'd ignored or not noticed they were uncomfortable of pushed them to "be fine" that would be different, I'd say you handled it really well.

Myself and DH have both had grandparents in care homes in the last few years and we very rarely took ds. It's potentially a controversial opinion, but sometimes it's just too much, for various reasons.

Go easy on yourself op! X

Unfortunately, in a care home, there will be men who are sexually entirely disinhibited. They might have been the loveliest, most respectful men on the planet before dementia - but once dementia hits anything is possible. Assume the worst (sadly).

By the way, some people will say, that’s who they really were all along. Of course, some will have been like that, but for others it’s just not true. My MIL was lovely before Alzheimer’s - and adored me. After Alzheimer’s I was an apparently a slut and a prostitute. And as she was equal opportunities, so was her own daughter.

Absolutely agree with this. There are conflicting needs here, a vulnerable elderly man in his home, who has enough additional needs to live there. Vulnerable children who do not have to hide discomfort from their parent in a situation like this.

@NeedyLimeMember you sound like you handled it well but I would really consider if this a good environment for the children, if this is the set up.

We could walk straight into a family member in a care home, we had to sign in and we needed the key code so no waiting.

This is the man's home, kissing his fingers to touch a child cheek might feel inappropriate, all you need to do is tell the staff, you don't know his health or mental history, you shouldn't be made to wait in an area where residents are, that's unsettling for everyone.the alternative was not to be rude or unkind, either just say please don't do that, please move away or find a member of staff.

Thanks for the responses.

We only had to stand outside as my Grandma needed changing soon after we arrived. It is a secure unit so residents can wander the corridors. I hadn't previously thought not taking my children there - I don't often take them anyway but it was her birthday and finding time to go without them would be tricky. Also it brings her so much joy seeing them. But I'm definitely going to think a bit more about whether it's the right thing to do.

As has been pointed out, sometimes residents become disinhibited and that is something to watch out for. But there is also great value to intergenerational contact (not specifically physical) for both parties.
I think you handled it well, given that your children were uncomfortable.
Is the age of this man relevant, or do you think, knowing them, their reaction would have been the same if it had been a younger person, male or female, whom they did not know?

It would be a shame for your grandmother not to have the joy of seeing her GC .... once you finish up in a home you almost never see children .... that is tough and far away from normal life. One minor incident should not close this door.

Intergenerational contact can bring value to both. During my late OH's slow miserable decline, my GC, of all ages, were closely involved. He was part of their lives, even though he was so seriously disabled and often muddled ... they would chat away with him and often got more attention from him when some of the other adults were busy. They became sensitive to his needs .... and would say:"Grandma, the wee bag is full!" ... they just took it all in their stride ... totally matter of fact. And they learned compassion and talk of him with great affection.

Another excuse for pervy behaviour: dementia.

Strange how women never experience this....

As I said in my post above, women do.

Of course some of the men in care homes are dodgy, but dementia does the most terrible things - including sexual disinhibition.

I genuinely hope you never see this in a person you love.

Thank you for this post. So true. It really upsets me when people say they're bad people. It's as stupid as saying you don't believe my once superfit trainer used to win races because now she's in a wheelchair.
But illness can change people, and even children need to have this explained to them, and to be encouraged to treat people with respect, not suspicion. That doesn't, of course, mean accepting being kissed etc, but it does mean understanding that an ill person is not a bad one, and how to deal with things.

Depending on what part of the brain has been affected by dementia, dictates the behaviour people display. Sexual disinhibition can affect both men and women. Don't mean this was what they were like in a previous life.

I once worked on a care of the eldery ward and can assure you both sexes are happy to masturbate in public when dementia is involved.

What's pervy, he kissed his finger then went to touch child's face, that could be for several,reasons including memories of his children. This was in a secure unit, everyone there has some sort of behaviour problem and you're wrong, women can display inappropriate behaviour too.

Oh dear! He was probably suffering from some cognitive decline . In future perhaps you could have a plan to immediately take your children right outside the building rather than waiting in the corridor when you need to leave your relative's room. It would be saf for them never to go with you.

Yes I didn't deem it to be pervy - it certainly felt innocent and i have a low tolerance for perrvy behaviour. One of the staff did mention that he misses his children a lot and they never come and visit. But equally I don't ever want my children to think that if something feels 'off' they can't put up a boundary just because someone isn't being openly hostile.

Well they do, I spent an entire nightshift once dealing with an elderly lady who was acting out sexual behaviour. At one point I had help her 'Give birth' she was unmarried and had apparently never had children. In a secure nursing home, I think we are allowed to accept the patients needs, regardless of what sex they are.

FFS. How much time have you spent with dementia patients? Females also lose their inhibitions. It's not an excuse, it's a disease.

Oh they do. Sorry to disillusion you, but it's not 'an excuse'. I've worked on wards where elderly women masturbated furiously in front of staff and visitors. It was difficult to stop them. Dementia isn't selective, sadly.

In fact, often women are worse, probably because elderly men aren't necessarily able to get erections.

But don't let that derail your misandry.

This.

It is ok to feel uncomfortable and to act on it. Yesterday I was in Tesco we have a long line of time self serve ones. I waited and then when a till was free started scanning my items with my 13 year old- a very tall 6 ft man came up very close behind me and literally was almost touching me and put his items ready immediately as I scanned the last item. Other tills were free so there was no need. He was really close to me and I felt uncomfortable eventually I said - look can you please give me some room and space here I feel like you are crowding me. He said No need to be so grumpy. 😡 some people have no awareness. I’d love to say I made a smart reply and the whole shop clapped but no - and I didn’t say anything further. You protected your daughter and I’d have told staff and that’s about all you can do.

They do. The final straw for my family friend was when her sister stripped naked and propositioned her husband quite insistently. She regularly stripped naked, touched herself, and made inappropriate comments before being put in a specialist care home (sadly she was quite young when she got dementia).

It's a horrible, horrible disease and can make the nicest person change beyond all recognition.

It would be a shame for your grandmother not to have the joy of seeing her GC .... once you finish up in a home you almost never see children .... that is tough and far away from normal life. One minor incident should not close this door.

It's the fact that residents (who were often very loving grandparents) hardly ever see children or babies, that makes them react so affectionately when they see any. My MIL was in a care home with dementia for nearly a decade, and the warmth and enthusiasm among residents when children visited, was very evident, and touching.

So don't immediately feel that you shouldn't take your children, just based on this incident, when your grandmother gets pleasure from their visits (and if your children are comfortable visiting her)

'I wondered what people's thoughts are on dealing with these kind of situations and conversations?'

Why @NeedyLimeMember ? Do you doubt that you did the right thing at the time and afterwards? What else could you have done?

It would be helpful if you could clarify what exactly a bunch of strangers on the internet could possibly advise you.

Perhaps you just wanted to discuss it. Again, why? Most people would just protect their child, talk to them and get on with their day.

What do you want from people?

Sadly, and uncomfortably, they do. My lovely, lovely, and very modest MIL started showing sexual disinhibition in the latter stage of her dementia. The original MIL would have been horrified and mortified.

This isn't a man thing. It's a dementia thing. And it's truly awful to see someone you love dearly, behaving that way.

Well done for speaking up. I'm trying hard to model this to my daughters, as I've been in far too many situations in my life where I've allowed a man to make me feel uncomfortable or threatened, and haven't spoken up for fear of being rude. I don't want my girls to be like this. I guess the difference lies in whether the man is being knowingly and intentionally inappropriate (as in your case) or wasn't (as in mine.)

They absolutely do.

The poor man has probably got dementia FFS