Ex husband going on holiday with new family

[SmileWithStyle]

Hi All,
I'd really appreciate some support or advice here as I feel in an awkward position. My ex husband and I divorced in 2023 and we have two sons who are now 7 and 10. He has since re-married and had another child with his new wife.
We have shared custody of the boys it works around 40%-60% split, with me having them a little more and usually sorting out all of the admin that comes with having kids.
So the problem started when my ex husband went on holiday abroad with his new wife and their daughter, but the boys were not invited. His mum helped with childcare, but my oldest was really upset and said "we're being dumped at Grans while they go on holiday" which I'm gutted about. My youngest is a bit more laid-back and was upset, but not to the same extent.
My oldest son has been having tantrums at his dad's and not behaving well. He's been great with me, very few issues and we have a really close relationship. His dad asked me to speak to him about the tantrums and bad behaviour. When we had a chat my oldest opened up about not feeling important to his dad, that they don't spend any time together, that the new daughter is the favourite etc. Firstly, I'm not sure how to feed that back to his dad. I feel it's not my place to be getting involved, but on the other hand, I want to advocate for my son and how this is making him feel.
Then there was another incident yesterday. I took the boys for haircuts cuts and they wanted to show their dad, so the boys did a video call and he was away in Ireland with his new wife and child. The boys didn't even know he was going to Ireland. After the video call they were both pretty upset and frustrated that their dad was away in Ireland and they hadn't been invited again.
I've tried reassuring them that they are loved and they know that, but I think my ex husband is really damaging his relationship with the boys, especially the oldest as they're being excluded from trips and holidays.
How can I approach this? It's such an awkward one as I don't really want to be the person telling him how his actions are impacting the boys. Our relationship is pretty fragile, there had been DV and lots of controlling behaviour so I don't think having that conversation will go down well.

I was also that child but it was my mum who didn't want to know me and my siblings. She left dad didn't want her kids and moved on with someone else who also left her husband but she took her kids with her, so my mum was too busy helping to raise her girlfriends kids whilst her own were left shoved aside and uncared about by her. It was even more of a kick in the gut that the girlfriends kids were also our best friends from school and they decided it was fun to rub it in that my mum was looking after them whilst ignoring her own kids. We ended up moving home with dad and changed schools. Safe to say I have no relationship with my mum and she's missing out on the grandkids now

Is your ex (and his parents) from Ireland? I’m going to play devil’s advocate and say that your sons couldn’t have gone to Ireland because of school.

Is your ex telling the kids where he is? Presumably your kids aren’t on social media so unless there’s familiar background on a video call like their grandmother’s house, could you ask him to be more discreet about where he is?

Watch out for including your ex in how much your kids are loved. There will come a point very soon where the kids will know and being told otherwise will make it look like you are lying and gaslighting. Sometimes my kids would vent about their dad doing insensitive things like that and I let them vent and sympathise with their sound logic rather than try and make excuses. I wasn’t going to coach ex through parenting post breakup. I sometimes dropped things for him to consider but wasn’t going to manage things for him the way that you might if you were together.

It’s very common for kids to feel sibling rivalry- more so if dad lives with them full time. Obviously your ex should be more sensitive to the fact that your sons may be feeling more insecure and him going away without them won’t help matters but as an ex you obviously have limited influence on that.

Things like this are why so many kids end up not seeing non-resident dad imo and it wouldn’t surprise me if your son ended up being one of those kids.

And this again, I would say potentially comes to a couple of reasons.

We took eldest child everywhere when he was tiny. Because it's almost like not having a child there. No paying for an extra flight, just a tiny cot in the hotel room for two. And then they're asleep for loads of it, or just get pushed about in a pram or pushchair. City breaks were really pleasant. Didn't have to do any child based activities or plan days around a baby being bored. It's an adult holiday with a baby in tow.

When we had the subsequent DC, we went nowhere like that. Not because of the baby, but because eldest child totally changed the dynamic. Now the youngest are of that age, we won't bother either. They aren't nice breaks with primary age children. We do family holidays, with facilities for DC, which are really nice, but definitely not the breaks we enjoyed when it was just us and one little baby.

Then of course, cost. If you're only taking a baby then it makes sense not to pay school holiday prices when you don't need too.

Hopefully there will be a child (not baby) appropriate holiday the boys are included on in the next year or so?

I've been in similar situations and it's awful to see your boys go through it. However your role is to facilitate them having a good relationship with their dad but you can't force him to be a good father. I think mention that they are upset but that's all you can do. Neutral and without trying to control him - as you can't. Stunts like this will ruin their relationship but you cannot change it but facilitate and advocate. X

Nah. That’s the second or 3rd time they’ve been away and not taken the children or even told them. op shouldn’t be telling her son that this what being loved is

No that’s he wrong perspective. It’s nkt oh the boys are at school so they can’t come, dad plans his holidays to be out of term time. It really is that simple.

So, to be clear, we are "bad" parents for deliberately taking the smallest ones away during term time for a tots type break while the eldest ones stayed with grandparents.

We must love the smaller ones more.

@SmileWithStyle Your son isn’t misbehaving, he’s hurting. He’s old enough to understand that his dad is taking holidays with the new family and leaving him behind, and that’s a painful thing for a child to process.

Your eldest isn’t having tantrums because he’s “bad”. He’s having tantrums because he’s hurt, excluded, confused, displaced, jealous (in the healthy, attachment‑based sense), insecure, grieving the loss of the family he used to have. Kids don’t have the language for “I feel abandoned and unimportant" they say it by shouting, crying, refusing, melting down. Your sons behaviour is communication and Dad is too dense to see it. Your eldest is old enough to understand exactly what’s happening, and it’s breaking his heart whilst the youngest either doesn't remember the Dad relationship pre separation as much or he simply isn't cognitive enough to realise what is going on.

If you tell him his Dad that “Your sons feel abandoned,” he will hear “You’re a bad father,” and he will react with defensiveness, anger, minimising, blaming you, punishing the boys emotionally so don't walk into that.

You don’t need to confront your ex directly, especially given the DV history. You can simply pass on the information neutrally: “DS1 has been upset because he didn’t realise you were going away. He said he misses spending time with you.” That’s not criticism - it’s just relaying what your son has expressed.

Your boys clearly feel secure with you, which is why they’re opening up. Their dad may not realise how his choices are landing, but you can advocate for your sons without putting yourself in a vulnerable position.

I would probably message their dad and say something like “ I've had time to consider the situation as you asked and I just wanted to pass something on because DS1 has been a bit unsettled recently. He said he didn’t realise you were going away and that he misses spending time with you. I’m not criticising - just letting you know what he’s expressed so you’re aware, because he finds it hard to say these things directly.”

And if you want to include the Ireland incident:

“After the video call yesterday, both boys were a bit upset because they didn’t know you were going to Ireland. I reassured them, but I thought it might help for you to know how they’re feeling.”

Hmm, I don't see the problem with their family unit having a holiday without the boys. This is, however, based on the assumption that the boys still do get holidays/breaks with Dad. Obviously they have a mum to have holidays with too.
Unacceptable if this isn't the case.

But did you also do things with your eldest children that were age appropriate for them without the younger ones?
Also go away with all your children?

It doesn't sound like the OPs ex is doing this.

Did you say there had been domestic violence? So their dad is a violent criminal? If so, my personal view is that the quicker the relationship deteriorates and they cease to see him the better. I know the prevailing ss view is that contact with both parents - even violent males - is in the best interests of children, but I disagree. What will they learn of value from such an individual?

I’d do nothing to help him. If he continues in this trajectory they’ll stop seeing him when they are teens and they have a choice. I’d just reassure my children that I’d always be there and seek out positive role models for them in better men in my family.

I think it is your business to say something to your ex OP. Your ex asked you to speak to your son so he brought you into the situation.

Just say I spoke to ds as you asked and this is what he told me he is feeling.

I would feed it back to your ex once. Then leave it. It’s not for you to smooth over his relationship with his children. We try and shield our kids and protect them but in experience they fall from a much greater height when they are older and there is no more smoothing over we as the other parent can do. I mean my ex got remarried and didn’t invite the kids….that was 6 years ago I was talking to my daughter other day as girls do thinking about when they get married when older (she’s 16 now) and she is currently not inviting him because turns out she’s not over it 🤣🙈 but she’s over the hurt she’s just very matter of fact about it and biding her time to get her point across. I spoke to my ex there were lots of things he did to damage his relationship with the kids. My ex is incredibly arrogant and would never consider how he was affecting the kids etc. I warned him what the outcome would be…..I was right. And now the kids go when they want something, or because they’ve not been for a while and feel they have to show their face. He wonders why and genuinely confused what has gone wrong 🤷🏻‍♀️. They love him of course they do, they accept him and his actions as it being just him, they know he is rubbish and it is what it is. But the more you voice the more you are seen as the problem and honestly it’s not worth it. So mention it once but Ultimately concentrate on your relationship with the kids and they will be just fine I promise. Because they have you. Xx

Is it possible that she is from Ireland so the visit is to see her parents rather than a holiday? I can see reasons why he wouldn’t take the boys on that kind of trip eg grandparents paying for travel, grandparents not having space to host their granddaughter’s half siblings etc

If your ex is using the word holiday for that kind of trip then he’s an insensitive idiot m. It’s not unreasonable that the grandparents
might not be interested in their granddaughter’s half siblings.

Yeah. It is a bit gaslighty but for good reasons.

Id listen. Say I understand why they feel that way. Ask them if they want you to tell their dad how they feel or they want to. Acknowledge that feeling hurt is very understandable and most kids would feel the same. Let them know that they have done nothing wrong and that it’s not ok and it’s their dad who is in the wrong so they don’t internalise it and think it’s their fault.

What a shit!!! I hate men sometimes.

They might not be interested as such, but showing their lack of interest by not having them as guests would be considered really rude in Ireland.

IME (being Irish) it's very unlikely that the new inlaws would behave like that. We always felt that sort of coldness to other people was stereotypically English. Not that all English people are like that either, of course, but in terms of what's considered the socially acceptable minimum, I can't see an Irish family making it clear that they didn't want to host anyone connected with their son, never mind actual children. That would be quite strange.

Did you suggest that your son talk to his dad about this? That's the avenue I'd be going down. Be there if your son wants that but I would be very wary of passing messages like this with no involvement from the children.

I do sympathise with you though. They're only 7 and 10 and they've had to deal with domestic violence in the home (regardless of whether they saw anything it's unlikely they perceived absolutely nothing amiss), their parents' marriage breaking down, their dad remarrying and having a baby inside 3 years. That's a LOT to expect someone without a fully developed brain to handle! Did he seriously think that the was going to be able to do all of that with no consequences? What a joke.

I think you need to do your best to draw boundaries to protect your own mental health here. Your children are old enough to express how they feel, with support. And if you pass messages he will, based on what you've said about him, shoot the messenger.

@Ifeelold48 's suggestion is good.

My ex hasn't gone on to have more children but when first in his new relationship, he went away a couple of times on short breaks with his new partner and sent photos to the DC, but he hadn't taken the DC away for a couple of years. Now, obviously, it could be that his partner paid. But it was still tone deaf because what the DC saw (oldest, at least) was that he could take time off to go away with his partner but not with them.

Another time, XH told DC that he couldn't take them on holiday that year because his partner wanted to go to an exotic destination for their 40th and XH couldn't afford to both go to the exotic destination and take DC on holiday. I have no idea what happened, but the exotic destination trip never actually materialised and they did a family trip instead. I suspect one of the ex-in-laws said something. When my DC1 told me about this plan, I could see they were crushed by it. It shows where priorities are!

I have had to deliver a couple of wake-up messages to XH. It doesn't go well in person, because no matter how hard I try to sound neutral, I don't think I huse my irritation well enough. XH always gets defensive, too. He'll swear blind to me that I've misunderstood or everything is fine, blah, blah, blah. However, he has sometimes changed his behaviour. Presumably because he doesn't actually want anyone thinking he's done anything wrong. He cares a lot about appearances.

So I would send a WhatsApp and hope he has a moment of enlightenment and realises he's damaging his relationship with your boys.

My younger DC won't hear or say a bad word about XH. In some respects, it's to their credit, but I do worry that they're internalising a lot. My older DC still loves their dad, but clearly doesn't see him as reliable. Your boys will work him out for themselves eventually.

In your position I'd say "I don't know, you'll have to ask dad" if it (or something similar) comes up again. Because you don't actually know why he didn't take them or why he makes the decisions he does. And offer to talk to your ex about it or just raise it as neutrally as possible.

Edited for typos and to be vague about "exotic destination" as pretty sure ex-SILs use MN.

Yes but no huge difference to this dad to be honest. The eldest have done things before the littles were born. And the littles do things that the eldest would be bored with.

Do the eldest do lots with us without the youngest? No, not really. They have friends, school, after school clubs, and are far less dependent on our attention.

That's the thing with 7yr+ age gaps. There are few activities that all can engage with and enjoy together. I suppose if we go to the beach, we all go. But we don't drag the littles to the elder ones matches, and we don't bore the elder ones by dragging them to soft play. We certainly wouldn't entertain them suggesting we love the little ones more if we take the littles out without them. We'd be nipping that in the bud swiftly.

7 and 10yr olds aren't supposed to be interested in the same things as a baby.

I really don’t understand why posters are ignoring the violence. Isn’t it a good thing that the children’s time with their father is limited? He doesn’t sound like much of a prize.

OP sees it is suitable to have the boys for that much time so...

10 year olds are just starting to get a sense of right/wrong/justice/injustice - he’s seen his father move on incredibly quickly (new relationship then marriage then baby in little more than 3 years) - it’s not surprising that he’s starting to notice things and have an opinion.

id tell the dad the truth - factually and taking out any emotion (as otherwise you’ll just get the blame that it’s you putting words in his mouth).

and then I’d leave it up to the dad. It isn’t your job to manage their relationship.

The law would likely insist on him having this contact as matters stand. Men who are violent to the mother are still usually awarded contact with the children. Doesn’t mean she has to do more than legally required to promote the relationship.

Yes. But little to do with the topic of the thread...