Paternity leave is too short- will it ever change?

[pisces5891]

I'm really interested in people's views on paternity leave and extending it the UK like they have in the nordic countries.

For context im 3 months post partum and my husband wfh. It's made a huge difference to my mental health to have another adult around during the day, and he's super hands on. For example, he will hold her while i use bathroom, do a call, pop to the shops, make lunch etc, so i really have the feeling of having a lot of help. Of course he focuses on work for the majority of the day. But I think if he wasnt there, id feel so lonely and occasionally really overwhelmed. I feel really lucky to have that support. I read an article about how in sweden they linked longer paternity leave with a huge decrease in post natal depression in women.

It got me thinking about the fact that in the UK, the majority of tiny baby care is done by a mum who likely spends quite a bit of the day alone (i.e. no close family to help out everyday, husband out at work etc). Thats certainly true of my nct class. You might see people at baby classes etc, but generally it's a lone task. Grandparents might help ocasionally, but its not the norm to get help daily.

To me, that's such an unhappy state of affairs. Children used to be raised in villages, and my experience with my own daughter is that id be so lonely if dh wasnt around. It makes me want to join the campaign to extend paternity leave. However, that campaign seems a but under supported in the UK compared to nordic countries? I saw a picture of a protest and there were about 20 people there🙄. Some of the women i know kind of accept that it's there job to watch baby, and that there's some biological and economic sense in men going back to work quite soon, and they can cope alone. But i don't want to just cope! I think looking after a baby as a couple is just much much nicer.

Really curious to hear peoples thoughts on this. Do we think there's a culture in the UK of accepting paternity leave as it is? What kind of paternity leave would you have wanted your dh to have? What would have been the ideal?

I know sometimes people say that if your bresdtfeeding , it makes sense for mum to be main carer..i disagree with this. I breastfeed, and i still want the help and the company!

Taxes in Scandinavian are a another level than UK.

Yes absolutely I believe in the shared parental leave is a wonderful idea and should shut up the dads who complain it’s not fair they don’t get the same as maternity leave and the mothers who inexplicably seem to not realise a year’s maternity leave isn’t some compulsory purgatory foisted just on them (or anyone) Completely agree, it doesn’t cost the tax payer a penny extra, even better. What I don’t agree with is the tax payer funding an additional extended paternity leave for fathers, exceptional circumstances aside!

Made me chuckle this. Organising cover as the main combine driver at the drop of hat during peak harvest time is nigh on impossible for the amount of acres we have. Also, harvest isn’t bound to a specific timeframe. Peak crop maturity and the weather aren’t always possible to predict 100% to organise cover for.

My husband has his own business and never took the full two weeks with our three. I was fine but I had very easy, very quick births and recovery and breastfeeding was fine.

In the beginning weeks when I was up breastfeeding he'd wake up with us and do a nappy change if needed, get me a drink and snacks if hungry. Wind them etc. When my third had colic and was awake between 10 till 2am every night he'd mostly take him downstairs to let me sleep when he wasn't feeding. He also did all of the cleaning, clothes washing and cooking the first month or so and that was actually the biggest help and he did the first few weeks of school drop offs for the older ones.

So I suppose even though he never had long for paternity, he was still doing the bulk of the things most people want their husband around for to do for them and being self employed was beneficial.

My husband had 6 weeks with our third and he was brilliant. He does his fair share even when we don’t have a newborn though.
Id far rather him than a stranger.

But has anyone said any of those things? Women aren’t in the wrong. People are highlighting a policy (shared parental leave) which could help.

I do think ultimately if you want both of you at home for some of it, I think it’s fair you split the leave. Rather than expect taxpayers to fund additional leave. It’s up to each couple to decide. I extended breastfed both of mine til they were 18 months old, there are rights at work to allow you to pump. The US has higher breastfeeding rates than the U.K., and much shorter mat leaves

We’re in complete agreement then. Sorry I misunderstood!

To be quite honest I’d be fairly pissed off for it to be ‘equalised’ after what went through in pregnancy and childbirth, I was on maternity leave from 6 months with one of mine as so drained from hyperemesis then had to go back to work at 6 months, which I didn’t mind in itself except it was a shame my milk then dried up and my baby didn’t get the benefit of closer to a natural term of breastfeeding. The dad not being physically affected at all could just happily start his leave from the birth and have 9 months of baby snuggles, without even any recovery from childbirth let alone any real reason for it being needed. My DH had no wish to take 9 months paternity leave and if I was a dad I couldn’t see why I’d want to either other than taking the opportunity for
some extra time off

I also think you raise a really good point that it used to be a village that raised a child. We are so removed from what a supportive community can be it’s unreal.

I wouldn’t romanticise this, I’m British Indian which is big on community and intergenerational interference help and believe me, “the village” comes with it’s own set of problems and challenges which can be disastrous for a new postpartum mum.

A choice would probably be the best thing then, some people would prefer their DH to have 6 weeks, some people grandma and others a home help, think it’s all much better when the state gives people choices in how it spends their taxes rather than going with one person’s agenda

I couldn’t agree more.

I did 7 months maternity leave and then my husband did 6 months paternity leave. Frankly, he was much more competent and bonded compared to other new dads as a result and that has continued as our child has grown up. I am not the default parent and he isn’t an afterthought. It’s been brilliant.

We could not have afforded to do this if his work didn’t offer full pay for 6 months for paternity leave given he earns a lot more than me.

An unintended but positive consequence of that being a standard offer from employers is that they would no longer treat hiring women as “risky” because they might have a child or be the default parent. If men are just as likely to take time out of their career for parental leave and childcare, it would improve equality in hiring.

I agree, personally found the best support were my other new mum friends and the nursery providing childcare for my older children!

Bugger off with your ageist nastiness! Many of us so called ‘boomers’ support our children with their children - I personally went part time so that I could take care of my grandchild one day a week, helping to reduce childcare costs amongst other things. Many of my peers have done the same thing. Why you think killing us off will benefit the current new parents I do not know!

Love this

There isn’t really that much to do around the house etc when you’ve only got 1 newborn baby though? So not exactly much he has to live up to

I'm British middle eastern, totally agree. I think i meant village in terms of more than just your dh. And your right, the general idea of the village can be over romanticised

I find all this talk of bonding fairly interesting too, I of course loved having a year off with my last baby and definitely had lots of benefits for us but I wouldn’t say I was more bonded that with my children who I didn’t have as much time off with. Mum’s who had their babies taken away at birth aren’t any less bonded else why would they suffer so much for it for the rest of their lives. I don’t see my older colleagues who only got 16 weeks maternity leave any less bonded or committed to their children

You’re lucky enough to have been able to afford to join an NCT group. It’s often beyond the realm of many mums on low incomes.

I don’t think it should be increased. It would be very expensive and most businesses/the government can’t afford it.

It’s much more important for mothers to have time off because their bodies have been through such huge change/trauma. Men do not need time off.

Sure, if there was a bottomless money pit then it’s a ‘nice to have’, but there’s not, and it’s wholly unnecessary. People need to get real about what the county can afford.

Not in the uk but very lucky my DP gets 6 months full pay from his work plus 4 weeks from the government. 10 weeks we are allowed at the same time and the remainder will be when I return to work parttime (this is our second) . We have no family support so it's very much appreciated!

A lot of men refuse to take it thinking their boss would mark it against them - usually in highly male environments where the woman's job is still seen to be doing all the home labour. Until this changes it is unlikely more men will take it up, let alone get longer. Men have to fight for this one, IMO.

This is all part of the large culture of misogyny and growing femicide we are living in, which desperately needs unpicking as it is growing stronger by the year.

I dont think it's needed when you compare it to how much it costs and the effect in the employer. Of course youre enjoying having your H there but it would be enjoyable to have him anytime surely.

DH ended up working the day DC1 was born (!), worked 8:30am - 11pm for the first couple of years and had no pat leave (he obvs could have but his job is tricky to get someone to cover for and he gets paid for the sacrifice). As a result I would take the kids on my own random adventures far and wide from the time they were small, other women have said they dont do xyz without someone to help but im just used to (winging) it so worry far less.

To be honest, i support parents being allowed to take unpaid leave but don’t think the taxpayer should be funding two parents to be off except in exceptional circumstances where sick leave should be used. We managed fine without any, and only 6 months maternity. It’s lovely to have longer but funding is the issue

Very true

Sorry what?! I went back when our first was 7 months. So he was largely responsible for weaning and dealing with a newly more mobile child. Who was also a terrible sleeper so he did most of the nights as I was working. Plus all the usual home stuff.

If there is so little to do, then are you in favour of women’s maternity rights being cut back? How does what needs to be done differ to my DH being at home while I work instead of the other way around?