DD12 lies and hides things every time she's asked to do anything

[drspouse]

Whenever DD is asked to put away clothes she hides them - in one of the many cupboards we have e.g. where I keep my out of season clothes, under her bed, in the attic, many places, too many to search.
She has form for this with every task she's asked to do yes I've done it but she's walked out the room with something she's supposed to put away and she leaves it on the floor.
She's doing it at school as well, her first instinct seems to be to lie rather than actually do the job.
Screen time is a privilege not a right but she doesn't seem to care if she gets it, and usually lies about having done her jobs around the house. We can watch her if she's hoovering etc but we can't search every cupboard every time she has clothes to put away!
Full story here is that she's 12, she has done this ever since she worked out how to lie, she's been diagnosed with ADHD and we're on a waiting list for medication.

I also have ADHD and massively struggled with putting things away until my mid 20s. Other than medication, the thing that helped me most was a podcast about how to tidy.

I suggest tidying up with her, and writing down what you do, step by step. Then give her an easy checklist of the steps, including what goes where, to follow in the future.

You probably understand what "tidy up" or "put your clothes away" means and get going. A lot of people with ADHD get overwhelmed trying to break this kind of task down into steps, in a logical order.

@Octavia64 we do some of that already but need to do more. However we have a big box for school stuff and it just gets to overflowing and then she can't find stuff!
If we put a box of her stuff in her room she'd hide that as well...

I agree with this based on what OP said here
She can tidy if someone checks frequently, or I'm helping or tidying in the next room.

So, sit with her while she is doing the task that needs doing. It's not about being her arms and legs but giving her the support she needs. Just because her brother with all his needs (which I'm assuming you have no problem meeting?) can do it, doesn't mean she is the same. PLEASE stop comparing them. It's like you've wrote her off as lazy and a liar without fully understand how much ADHD can affect you.

I have no ideal who ADHD dude is, but I encourage you to expand your ADHD research, as someone with ADHD it's heartbreaking reading how you talk about her, as you don't really understand how her brain works.

The issues here are a bit different to the ones you outlined before. So she's not just putting the glasses on the floor/somewhere random because she can't be bothered/hasn't got the executive function to put them away, she's actively hiding them? Presumably because she doesn't want to wear them?

And the phone issue is being deliberately defiant rather than lazy/disorganised.

I'd separate the two problems out in your mind because I the solution for one won't help the other. Doing tasks with her will help them get done and help her learn to complete tasks. This method won't work when she's being deliberately defiant e.g. hiding her glasses so she doesn't need to wear them or using a phone when she shouldn't etc.

Why is a 12 year old doing the hoovering?? Poor kid

Errr, why not? The 7yr old in my house hoovers! Why shouldn't she? She is part of the household.
She even, sometimes, bring the bins round 😮

So it isn’t just ADHD but also childhood trauma of some sort that has led to her being adopted. That will have a massive impact on her and the age she develops compared to regular kids.

Yes, you will have to be her frontal lobe and her eyes, arms and legs. Another poster had some good advise about turning the tasks around with getting her to show you the bag is packed for school. Same with her drawers, you are her in room and then get her to put her stuff away so you can see if goes in the right place.

She isn’t anywhere near ready yet for the independence you are expecting.

This all sounds horribly familiar, my son is grown up now and a lot better but unfortunately I'm going to have to echo most of the advice here;

She's not ready for the responsibility you're giving her. She needs more support.

You (and your DH!) are going to have to find the time, or you can choose to keep banging your head against the wall for the next 5-10 years. Sorry, I'm sounding trite and I do absolutely understand the frustration involved but this is who she is and there's no magic trick to 'fix' her.

I think her doing her washing is great. But just because your DS has greater needs overall, doesn't mean there can't be some specific things which DD struggles with more due to her disability. When DS needs support, do you call him "madam" and complain you're "following him around like a toddler"?

Juggling it all sounds very difficult, but remembering that DD is also struggling is probably more likely to lead to a long-term improvement.

Do you send them up the chimney too?

My brain works in a similar way. Here are some things that have helped me:

Have less things.

Have one place where the things go the moment I come through the door.

For glasses I would either wear them all the time or have multiple pairs eg. School bag, homework place, tv etc.

To some extent I think you need to accept that she will be more dysfunctional in doing things like laundry. She won’t do it in the same way as you or her sibling and she probably never will.

What is absolutely not acceptable is lying. I would come down really hard on the lying. She needs to be able to say: she forgot, she couldn’t do it, she didn’t do it because she didn’t want to or she thought she had done it (albeit differently to how you would have done).

My dd has adhd.

what has helped for us (including most of the stuff I mentioned for my son) is getting kallax shelving from Ikea and labelling it.

so my son had a box under his bed for swimming stuff, another box for martial arts, etc etc.

boxes didn‘y really work either my dd but the kallax is good because you can see what’s in each cubby.

laundry is hard because it’s not a daily job. You could make aspects of it daily - eg bring clothes down each day, put clothes away from central delivery point of clean clothes.

it is important for children with adhd to learn routines etc but honestly my dd still as an adult wears every item in her wardrobe then does a whole day of washing.

ADHD or not, I can’t get past the fact that you don’t do your 12-year-old’s washing or make sure she has what she needs for school each day. She’s not sharing a flat with friends - she’s a young child and you should be looking after her better than that. One of the ways that people learn how to take good care of themselves as adults is by being well looked after as children. If she’s used to going to school in dirty clothes with no glasses etc, she’ll think that is normal. By all means involve her in the process so she learns how to do it, but why bother having kids if you expect them to be self sufficient by the age of 12?

If I had one, perhaps 😂
I want her to grow up to be a fully indendent, capable adult, who looks after herself and the environment she lives in.
Why would you NOT teach your child to do these very basic of tasks?
Oh and she also makes her own bed and cleans her own room. She also loads her washing in the machine and sometimes helps with the cooking.

DH is retired but seems busier than ever as is usually the case

This has annoyed me. You DH needs to stop fancying around with this hobbies and parent, he /you need to change your mindset, he isn’t retired, he is a SAHD with 2 children with extra needs. They need to be your priority.

As has the repeated DS has greater needs, he has different needs, which manifest in different ways but you are unfavourably comparing the two. I suspect when he struggles with something your DD can manage you don’t use “well DD can manage this so you should”. And it shouldn’t work the other way around either!

You keep referring to ADHD dude, and blanket statement like children with ADHD should…. All children are different and need to be treated as individuals.

Finally, your DD clearly really dislikes her glasses rather than just being disorganised she is actively trying to not wear them. You need to explore different options with her and the optician.

She probably functions at a much younger age than her actual age. If she consistently doesn't manage a task then it's likely that the task is beyond her at present regardless of her age and whether her brother with more needs can do it. Does she have processing difficulties? It strikes me that she isn't grasping your instructions. Does she have sensory difficulties? That could be the reason for her hiding her specs. I think she probably needs an assessment by a SALT and OT so that you are more certain where her difficulties lie and you get some professional support to help her.

If she is demand-avoidant, would setting alarms on her phone work?

Laundry
Put glasses in bag
Check if homework is done

It would help establish a routine, and might generate less resistance than a person asking her to do the same task.

I do think your expectations are high though. She doesn't need to learn to do her own laundry at 12. She can learn at 14, or 16, after she has mastered the basics of bag packing etc.

DS1 is 16 and autistic. At 12, he was spending all his energy navigating secondary school (which teachers did he have today, what books did he need, where were his classrooms, what was for lunch) and puberty and the ever-changing social demands and expectations that come with being a teenager. He'd have failed miserably if he also had to manage household tasks on top of this. Now he's 16, he is more than capable of laundry, making his own lunch, buying groceries etc. Because there is more brain space available to process it.

Sounds like she needs a lot more support and less judgement when she is struggling. I am all for children taking on some chores but this is too much for her, given her additional needs.

I would recommend making these activities that you do together- she will find it much easier to follow the steps if you are there with her and talk to her about how to break the task down into smaller tasks (first we're going to pair the socks, or whatever). Reward charts aren't usually that motivating with ADHD- it's not a lack of motivation, it's a problem with executive function. Similarly you can sit together as she does her homework.

How long will she be waiting for medication? Poor child, its awful to feel like you are completely useless and letting everyone around you down, and v difficult to be the parent trying to manage and support them without adding to the shame and self-esteem issues

I suspect you know there is childhood truama involved here op. That does cause injury to the brain. I also have a child who had that shitty start in life.
I absolutely get what you are trying to do (frustrating eh😁)
I understand the tools you are trying to give your dc as they probably have only you and dp and I'm betting you are worrying about what their life will look like when you and dh are no longer here. (I do)
I think my wee one is going to have the same issues as you, further down the line as I see glimmers of it in your post.
Consider this a wee x & hug from me

I agree with this. Also be rigorous about things always, always going in their places. So we have:

Her keys on a special hook by the front door
School bag lives in a particular place
All school things live in bag
Boxes of spare pens on table top by school bag
Place for glasses near door
Coloured folders for school books

And I'm afraid I do still put clothes away for her.

ADHD and autism (which my DD has too) does tend to mean longer to get the hang of things like this.

The book Smart But Scattered is good.

Nobody goes up chimneys now. All adults cook/clean/do washing. She's learning to do the things she'll need to do as a grown up. Not being a child labourer.
All family members help to the extent they can.
She's pretty good at hoovering - like I say she can do her washing in the steps it takes. Both DCs like to choose and cook a meal about once a month each, with the help they each need.

@WaryCyanStork it's not so much comparison as capacity - yes they have different needs but we don't always have the capacity to either do things for the DCs or keep to a routine or help them do things - because each of their needs are so great. And yes we do use silly names for them (e.g. DS can be Mr Random and DD Miss Messy, anything that's not just teasing is strictly between adults and only when exasperated, yes we are allowed to get exasperated).

There's always something interrupting our best intentions - whether it's DS having a fit (he has epilepsy) or urgent forms to fill in or I'm away with work or whatever.
And yes DS does need following around for slightly different reasons sometimes, and it's just as age-inappropriate.

@Bambalama she's old enough to do her own washing. We are going to have to agree to disagree on that one.
Of course we try and make sure she's got what she needs. But when she tells us she's put all her stuff in her bag - do we repack it every day? Check her pockets as she leaves to see if she's taken anything she shouldn't and behind the coat rack to see if she's hidden her homework there?
Do you dress a 12 year old and smell her pants and socks to see if they are clean? Give her a bath to make sure she's actually rinsed out the conditioner from her hair?

@Crumpetring I would love her to have less stuff and we're working on it but there is just so much going on plus she has a major problem with wanting to be buying "stuff" and getting a kick out of shopping. Every day when we don't have plans she wants to be out either doing an expensive activity or out buying tat. Again we know this is part of her ADHD and we try not to be too hard on her but it does mean she has way too much stuff!
Sorry it's taken me so long to write this (busy with DS) so I can see 6 new posts!

You might hope a 12 year old would do this stuff, but it might be easier to do it yourself. My DD wouldn't have hidden things but the chances of her reliably putting things away or in the right place wouldn't have been great, she did get better.

You (plural) have to find the capacity. She needs your support.

what exactly is her retired father too busy with to help her? you work so he absolutely should be checking her bag with her before she leaves the house to make sure it's properly packed.

tbh the putting washing in the attic or filling drawers up purposely with lrher stuff so she can't fit in what she's meant to sounds like more than ADHD. I don't know much about PDA but it seems likely there's something else like this going on