First ever baby to be expelled from nursery?!

[SaraG3018]

Hi all. I've got an 18mo DD who is just, a firecracker. She's always called a happy baby by everyone, and she is, but she's also absolutely savage and insane. Everything is a delight and a game and a reason to get overexcited.

Sometimes she gets handsy, other times she throws toys or pulls hair. With us, we don't mind so much but nursery have now put her on a behaviour plan! I never heard of such a thing.

When she started to be like this around 12-14mo we used to firmly tell her not to, remove her from the situation or toy or person, but not over labour the point so as not to give her attention over it. She loves the attention. We also got given a sticker chart and a set of laminated cards with red stop signs or happy or sad faces etc to help her identify her feelings or to know when to stop.

I know all toddlers can get this way but my older DD who's now 6 was never this bad. She's now on a behaviour plan where the nursery tries to track any triggers or particular people but they're not spotting any pattern. They ring us almost daily now with something she's done, and mostly she's not hurting other kids though there have been a couple of occasions of pushing or pulling. She knows how to say sorry and does it well, so understands the concepts of no or kind hands. But the thing is, for her, it's never a tantrum or upset or malicious behaviour it's the opposite- she's just happy and overexcited and misplaces the energy. She doesn't realise when she could hurt someone, she just has this thrilled look in her eye like it's all play.

At this point I genuinely feel like my little happy girl might be the first ever baby to get expelled from a nursery! I half feel indignant because, why are the nursery staff ringing me to check if I've been using the sticker chart properly when I'm at work... she's literally a 1 year old baby who can't speak yet. She's just about starting to pick up single words now. On the other hand, I know she's more demanding than my first and handsy and I'm starting to feel like a bad mum. But I literally don't know what else I can do? If I tell her off even more she just wiggles away or gets happier from the attention and eye contact. She's kind of feral but we love it and think it's just her baby nature and will grow out of it. But is there something I'm missing? Could we be trying something else? Any advice much appreciated! At this daily rate I'm sure they're going to tell us they can't handle her and we need to leave soon!

I imagine other parents are complaining frequently. If this is a real post and not just made up with trigger words like ‘feral’, OP, it will be worth your while putting some effort in sooner rather than later.

I haven't read the entire thread, so apologies if this has been suggested, but isn't 18 months is on later end to be starting to pick up single words? Not that it signals a huge issue, but do you think there's a chance she's frustrated by that?

I do agree that a sticker chart is useless at that age.

My oldest had “behaviour issues” from a very early age and was later diagnosed with severe adhd. Im not saying that to suggest your daughter has adhd but to give an idea of how challenging he could be. When we found a nursery that fit him he was amazing and they loved him.

it does sound like this nursery might be a poor fit for her and, as a former parent educator, I’m utterly unconvinced that sticker charts and smiley faces are appropriate at this age.

when my children started to get overwhelmed and a bit “overexcited” we did “time in”. At home we had cuddle corner with a vision and a few books and we’d sit together and look at a book. If we were out it would be on my lap. So much easier to regulate when you’re sitting close to someone calm than on the naughty step alone.

The NHS says 'Many children are easily distracted, impulsive and have high energy levels, particularly if they’re under the age of 5. This does not mean they have ADHD. It could be a sign of something else, like being tired, anxious or stressed.'

A lot of the suggestions in your OP don't seem age appropriate.
Whilst she might know what the words "sorry" and "kind hands" are she probably doesn't grasp their meanings.

I wonder also if the word "no" has disappeared into background noise. When my daughter was that age and I felt like I had spent the entire day saying no to her I set myself the challenge of not saying no at all for the next 3 days. Other words and phrases that mean no could be used. It made me think a lot more about how I was communicating with her and meant that "no" was saved for those "that is dangerous you need to stop that right now" moments.

If she was throwing toys I would mirror how you play with that toy, if it continued I would move the toy away and engage her with something out. If it continued I would start a game that did involve throwing in a safe way. Hitting, biting, scratching and so on, in the first instance I would stop her and say we don't do that. If she went back to do it again I would moved her a little further away saying No, we don't do that.

I found that actions alongside language helped at 18 months she could then start to marry up the words with what I was asking of her. As she approached 24 months those words had more meaning to her and I could say them before she went to do the action and that would stop her from proceeding

A sticker chart for an 18 month old 🤣

I agree with this OP. You might find it cute that your daughter does these things but if this was done to your child pulling hair and pushing, I’m sure you wouldn’t find it cute. And every couple of months isn’t really OK either.

i also think that as a few other people have mentioned, it might be normal toddler behaviour it might be something more. Perhaps you need to consider that. I have a speech delayed autistic 3 YO and a very very chatty 18m who was talking from 12m and says 3 word sentences. The fact she’s not really talking much and only starting to say 1 words is delayed if you speak to a HV.

She's not really approaching it though is she, she's moved into denial and minimising behaviours, plus everything she has done so far has been ineffective. Laughing it off is not a great response.

She has taken what she wants from this thread and ignored any reality checks or suggestions that this is above an beyond what one would expect from a toddler.

DS2 was expelled from nursery for pulling one of the nursery workers tops down! He was 10 months oId, I'd just stopped breastfeeding, and he'd been trying it on with everyone, including his dad. They said they didn't think he was ready for nursery! He was fine at the childminders.

This sounds very like my DS at this age.
He was very sociable and enthusiastic, loved to play with other kids etc., but he would become too excited and act impulsively. He’d pull other kid’s clothes and run too fast around smaller children etc.

We moved nursery to a much smaller setting and worked with their SENCO closely to set up his environment so that it didn’t completely overwhelm him.
We worked really hard with his new nursery workers on calming techniques, and they built him a quiet corner in his nursery room when he needed a break from the overwhelm/excitement. He did really well there once changes had been made.

He is now 5 and quite clearly has ADHD, he’s on the list for an assessment. Your daughter sounds very very similar to him, so it might be worth you looking up ADHD and working with the nursery on regulation techniques.

My DS was like this at a slightly older age and it was very troublesome. I found the most effective thing was removal from the situation and a completely silent time-out, because he enjoyed all of it - pushing the child over, having the nursery teachers earnestly explain why it's bad to push people over, saying sorry, all of it. Taking the drama out and making every misdemeanour result in a very boring time was pretty effective.

Nursery refused to do that!!! They felt he was profoundly autistic and didn't understand that hitting hurt the other children. They did puppet shows for him about how hitting made the puppet's friend sad. They called in the educational psychologist. DS2 had a fine time but I was a shredded wreck.

In desperation one day they did what I suggested, removing him from the scene of the crime and standing in a corner ignoring him. It worked instantly and solved the issue more or less overnight.

Sticker charts don't sound to be working, unsurprisingly....

I'd try a childminder. We had to move our daughter from nursery (different reasons) too, and she's so much happier with a childminder.

So the OP is all firecracker, savage, insane, handsy, feral but we love it; and the follow up is dialling it right down to oh it's such minor things and it's annual not even monthly.

Way to go on the minimising, OP.

Sticker chart is probably for the parent so they can realise the size of the problem

the day before had another 20 minute chat at drop off about how she was throwing sand on the floor and not using listening ears.

An 18mo…throwing sand on the floor…not using ‘listening ears’? Surely not!!
Sounds like the nursery staff have never dealt with toddlers before. They’ve obviously labelled your dd ‘difficult’, and having done that, they are going to look for behaviours to justify their label. I would get a reset with a different nursery. Maybe try and find an ‘outdoor’ nursery where there is lots of outside play to burn off her energy and it doesn’t matter if she gets sand/mud everywhere!

When my DS was 1 year old his childminder literally returned him to our house because she said she'd met all his needs and he kept screaming so it must be 'behavioral'.

He is now 8, super intelligent, active, happy, lots of friends and does really well with school work.

Some childminders are incredible, that one was inexperienced and wanted 'easy' children only. I wonder if the nursery and the staff are right for your wee one, as nurseries vary hugely in quality and staff vary in their experience and skills.

This. You're not helping AT ALL with your attitude that it's cute and you don't mind at home.

"Feral" is awful.

It sounds like you’re giving her the impression that her behaviour is okay, so realistically there’s no actual reason for her to change it specifically during nursery hours.

I'm so glad you've read my mind from so far away! Perhaps read my later posts instead of reacting to specific words.

Is she in nursery 5 days? I would give her at least one full weekday with just you going for long walks in the woods or big park or any outdoor experience you can. And then when she is 2 adding in something like Little Kickers, Rugby Tots or Kung Fu as an outlet for physicality that you can praise her and give her positive attention for.

As others have said, the nursery also sound dubious.. Sticker charts won't work at all at this age. Makes me wonder if she lashes out more because her needs aren't being met or understood there. I'd definitely look at a forest school setting.

Good luck. You sound like a great mum. To counter all the naysayers, my ds who was like this is still a firecracker but is a junior international athlete as well.

Also OP, be reassured that some of us can actually read and appreciate the great writing style of your post, and are not taking words like feral at face value. And some of us are of your generation and can read the humour and light irony in your descriptions.

Things she does at nursery but not at home - throws food if she's full up, has pushed another child twice in the almost year she's been there, so not often, has thrown a toy at or scratched a member of staff by now 3 times in that whole period. So that's not great but this is by no means a frequent or weekly thing. Mostly at nursery what we get complaints about is what they describe as handsy but not hurting or pushing anyone, or they would specify that

Firstly, I think saying it's three times 'in a year' is surely disingenuous - she might have been there since 6 months but she wasn't pushing kids then, right, so the incidents are all more recent and close together?

Secondly, what do you think they mean by handsy if not hurting or pushing? It sounds very much like a euphemism for that to me. You give the example of 'pulling a vest' as something that's clearly below this level - but that could be really quite a violent way of pulling another child around which could get them quite hurt.

Like others, I think the sticker chart is bonkers, and would shake my trust in the nursery. But I also think I would give some thought to them saying they find her behaviour very challenging and unusual for her age - whether or not their child development knowledge is all it should be, they do spend time with a lot of children this age. I've known several people who had young children that nurseries really struggled with, and at the time I thought the nurseries were being rubbish (e.g. calling a parent because they 'just won't settle'). In every case it became clear as the child grew older that there were some additional needs there, and that nursery were correct in their sense that their behaviour wasn't typical for their age.

Is she still in the baby room? You mention her being gentle/kind to cheer the babies up.

If she is still in the baby room it's likely that:
A) she's bored
B) there are children with more urgent needs getting more input and she's wanting more interaction than the staff are able to give her at times
C) she needs more activity and movement than being in the baby room is allowing her.
D) the staff are more used to a different kettle of fish than the challenge your DD's personality is presenting to them.

I'd be asking the nursery to only call you during work if it's an emergency, and I wouldn't be stood for 20 minutes at pick up either. That's just prime time for kids to play up and I'm sure you want to just get home!

My suggestions are ask she's moved to the toddler room, and/or consider another setting.

Just my thoughts as a mum of two high energy kids and ex early years professional.