Nasty bullying of DD (1.5) by DS (2.5) - Tonight he broke her finger, I'm at a loss.

[AmiWhatAndWhy]

They are less than a year apart, and generally get along really well. DS can be extremely protective and loving towards her and they share toys, food etc nicely.

Recently though I've seen if they are left alone when he is tired or frustrated he gets seriously nasty towards her. One occasion last week I went to the loo and heard a huge commotion, to find he'd trapped her inside the toybox, and was sitting on the lid laughing as she hysterically screamed.

He also tries to take food and drinks away from her, even when he has been given exactly the same and she just lets him. It's heartbreaking as she idolises him and he can be so cruel.

Tonight was something else though and he is currently in bed crying, DD is asleep in our bed with DP.

They share a room, DS in a toddler bed and DD in a cot. Sometimes he climbs into her cot and they sleep together, which he did this evening and it's always been fine so I turned out the light and left them.

I then heard proper screaming and dashed into their room. He was kneeling on her chest with her hand in his mouth, he had fucking blood around his mouth. I'm ashamed to say it but I pulled him off her and threw him to the floor. Her entire hand was covered in bite marks, and really deep ones, bleeding everywhere and her index finger was blue and swollen. How could he have done so much damage in less than a minute? We consoled her, cleaned her up and put tcp and plasters on but her finger kept swelling and I saw she couldn't move it. DP took her to A&E and she needed to have skin glue on one wound and an x ray showed a small break to her finger. They have taped it to the next finger, and also wrapped a bandage over her whole hand as she's too young to know not to mess with it. I am furious, with DS but mainly with myself. We sat him down and showed him she is hurt and he said sorry, but he doesn't even know the true meaning.

How am I supposed to stop this sort of thing happening? What am I doing wrong?

Your choice of words is either thoughtless or deliberately inflammatory. You cannot describe a two-year-old's actions as torture.

I'm ridiculous? Christ. Got any pots need blackened?

What I am trying to get at is:

not all children go through intensely jealous/aggressive phases but some do

(if you haven't experienced this in your own family, it can be hard to understand why other children aren't like yours)

OTOH:

not all children who do go through these phases have anything permanently wrong with them. It does not necessarily mean that they are going to grow up into violent and anti-social adults

I had a brother who was very violent as a young child (I might well still have scars)- yet he never got into trouble at school and is now a loving husband and father and a successful member of the community

my dd also had a couple of violent phases where she needed close supervision and (at a later age) restraining (I definitely still have the scar)- but again, never at trouble in school and is now a loving big sister, unusually mature for her 11 years

What I think helped both of them was a firm but loving approach. 'I am here to make sure you can't hurt anyone, but I will always love you'.

OTO(third)H:

some children who display aggressive behaviour may have longterm problems and need outside help. Time will show. In the meantime, all you can do is- supervise and love!

I dont agree that a 2 yr old doesn't understnd what sorry means and can't be held repsonsible. During the third year of life a child develops considerably. Certianly towards the end o fhte thrid year ( when they are rising 3) they certainly understand that saying sorry means to comfort the other child cognisant in which is the acknowledgment that what they did is wrong.
My 2.9yr old certainly does. And I don't believe he is unusual.

I am neither thoughtless nor inflammatory. I am trying to help the OP and telling her how I see it.

I would be concerned; you wouldn't. Fine. You've made your views well known on this thread.

You are entitled to your opinion, as am I and I would ask you to respect that.

dd1 has a scar on her arm from ds1's teeth, which i had forgotten about totally until this point, as although i lost it at the time (rather like the op) a couple of year's later it isn't really an issue. they are the best of friends.
supervision.

Beaulocks, tell me how you perceive this episode as torture?

I hope you are feeling better this morning.

My children have 15 months between them and when ds was a similar age to yours dh and I had just gone out of the room for a moment to answer the door when we heard a scream. Ds was sat on top of dd with her hair in his hand banging her head on a stone floor. At that moment, I honestly thought he was evil - the image was so shocking, and I can imagine for you with blood and an injury which required a hospital visit it was much worse.

I did not know what to do with ds and how to convey my shock at his actions to him and how to make him feel the guilt and horror that I felt.

Of course I could not, it was not possible. We did impose sanctions on ds - can't now remember what, but they were not terrible. However, I did learn that they must never, ever be left on their own together. I also had to keep telling myself that ds was expressing his resentment at dd getting more attention that he did (as babies sometimes do) and try and make sure that he got more attention.

I really understand where you are coming from, but do try not to see your ds as deliberately awful (I certainly did for a while). This is not indicative of the person he will grow to be. Ds is now 5 and although he and dd have their moments, dd describes him as her best friend and they often play beautifully together - totally unsupervised, so don't despair.

A 2 year old may learn to understand that they're expected to say sorry and provide some comfort. That's actually pretty easy. What they may not be able to do is think through the consequences of their actions before an event takes place. That is totally different. Impulse control varies from child to child (adult to adult as well) and it is not uncommon for 2 year olds to have next to no impulse control. It doesn't make them thugs or future psychopaths or even a child with developmental problems (although certainly children with developmental issues often have poorer impulse control) - 2 is still tiny.

DS2 is completely non-impulsive- he would never have done something like the child in the OP. DS3 on the other hand is very impulsive and very ruled by his emotions and the way he's feeling right now. Aged 3 he'll quite happily lamp his 9 year old brother if he thinks he's doing something wrong.

Excellent posts, Cory.

i think tbh the OP has described it in such lurid terms (no doubt because of her shock) that you could interpret the child as torturing his sister and certainly continuing to bite and draw blood could be described as vicious. i think you're being a bit hard on beaulocks, bruxeur, she is entitled to her opinion.

"torture
verb [T]
to cause great physical or mental pain to someone intentionally:"

I'm leaving this thread now bruxeur.

"torture
verb [T]
to cause great physical or mental pain to someone intentionally:"

I think the point is though that a 2 year old isn't going to be doing it intentionally- because they don't have the capacity to think through how their actions will impinge on someone else before the event. They will be able to reflect on it afterwards (that's how they learn) but not think it through before.

A cautious child will approach everything carefully, a less cautious child will throw themselves straight in then extract themselves from the chaos. I've had both types- the cautious ones are far far easier to parent (and understand from an adult perspective).

I could interpret his actions as attempting to symbolise the inherent dichotomy of love/hate within a sibling relationship throught the medium of modern dance, but that wouldn't make me any less wrong, and I'm pretty sure someone would call me on it.

The OP was posting at a very emotionally disturbing time, which is why her language may be coloured - beaulocks is not, and should think a little more carefully before using such loaded terms.

Is that better?

ah but beaulocks, it's precisely the intention that's the nub of this. did he intend to hurt her or did he intend to see what would happen if he sunk his teeth into her hand etc?

Bye!

I'm with LisaLisa here.

I have never encountered this type of sustained unkind behaviour in my own children, although the odd shove, hit (yes, often with wooden train track) or pinch has been exchanged.

My DS has learning difficulties (Global Developmental Delay of around 30%) and at 2.5 started nursery with enough empathy to comfort children who were crying for their parent by patting their backs and bringing them toys.

Perhaps you do need to chat with your HV (or someone) about strategies to help him realise this behaviour is not acceptable. Which may very well be spending some positive quality time just with him, to increase your positive contacts with him etc alongside a 'naughty step' or other exculusion - having never had to deal with this I have no genuine advice but wish you all the very best of luck.

I don't think it was sustained though was it- it was less than a minute according to the OP.

well said goosey - v empathetic but sensible post. Hope you're feeling better OP.

yurt, I was struggling for the right word and this sustained is over dramatic.

Perhaps repeated would be more appropriate?

What I mean is one bite and a hit seems about normal toddler behaviour,often because the ensuing scream shocks the 'doer' so they immediately stop.

A hand covered in bite marks and a broken finger is a little more than I had experience of/thought was usual, especially if 'doer' continued despite the screams?

Patting another child on the back is not empathy, it is mimicking behavior. My 2 year old can sort money into piles, it doesn't mean he's doing the house hold accounts in his head.

Too much is being expected. Too much ability is being assumed.

Too much emotional control is being expected from someone as yet unable to reliably control his bladder.

and yes, I am seeing this as a parent who has a 2 year old as a younger one of two. When you see how little a 5 year old understands still, you see how innocent a two year old really is.

I expected too much of my eldest child. I wanted more from him than he had to give. Just because someone else's two year old can and does or doesn't do something, it doesn't mean your own is capable of the same, and to continually ask too much is to set a child up for ingrained guilt and failure.

I agree that it most likely just the fact that he is 2 that causes this behaviour. He is not abnormal and you have done nothing wrong.
You need to make sure you keep them apart at all times when you are not in the room. Also please dont blame your son for his actions or hold a grudge, he really isnt being nasty intentionally.

It sounds like a horrific thing to have seen and been through and I can totally understand why you were so shocked, horrified and unsure of whether the behaviour was normal.
Your son is too young to understand empathy but I think some posters on here have yet to develop empathy skills too.

Actually I disagree with that part of your point Colditz. Patting is a soothing gesture that may be a child's own. My DD pats me when I hug her. I have never patted her. She's not mimicking me or anyone else. It's just her own way of communicating in a comforting way physically (which happens to be rather lovely as well). She started doing it at about 1 year.

But I agree with your general point that at 2 children have very little in the way of thinking, processing, understanding and empathising skills and I'm sure we are all at risk of overestimating them and then feeling let down when they behave like babies (which they are).

I do still think though that the OP is not wrong to be concerned. Like GooseyLoosey was.

I'm not sure it's completely typical but that doesn't mean to say we should pathologise it either.

Exactly Colditz. I found that when dd was born, I almost stopped seeing ds as a baby and expected so much more of him as he was so much more "grown up" that dd. Of course, with hindsight this was unreasonable as he was a baby too!

OP - come back and tell us how it is going. I really do appreaciate the horror you must have felt and I don't think any other parent would feel different when confronted with what you saw, but you will hopefully come to see that your ds does not see it as you do and to him it was probably a legitimate reaction to frustration.

Supervision is the key here, but it must be hard for the OP to like a kid that hurts her youngest and tips hot chocolate over her, that is not normal behaviour IMO I don't care how many times anyone says he's 2, I've had 3 two year olds and none have ever been so nasty.
And if he does that to any child outside the house/family there will be outrange, especially if it's discovered he's done it before.
It needs nipping in the bud asap, I hope you're ok OP.

How on earth would such a young child be able to think through the consequences of tipping hot chocolate over?

Ds3 - who is a little bit older- has thrown a cup of water when cross (and knew as soon as he did it he would be in trouble for it - didn't stop him doing it). He hasn't thrown a hot drink because he hasn't been allowed near one. But throwing a hot drink would have been the same for him as throwing a cold one.

If a child isn't capable of thinking through consequences then the only way you can guarantee safety is by changing the environment and/or supervision.