Nasty bullying of DD (1.5) by DS (2.5) - Tonight he broke her finger, I'm at a loss.

[AmiWhatAndWhy]

They are less than a year apart, and generally get along really well. DS can be extremely protective and loving towards her and they share toys, food etc nicely.

Recently though I've seen if they are left alone when he is tired or frustrated he gets seriously nasty towards her. One occasion last week I went to the loo and heard a huge commotion, to find he'd trapped her inside the toybox, and was sitting on the lid laughing as she hysterically screamed.

He also tries to take food and drinks away from her, even when he has been given exactly the same and she just lets him. It's heartbreaking as she idolises him and he can be so cruel.

Tonight was something else though and he is currently in bed crying, DD is asleep in our bed with DP.

They share a room, DS in a toddler bed and DD in a cot. Sometimes he climbs into her cot and they sleep together, which he did this evening and it's always been fine so I turned out the light and left them.

I then heard proper screaming and dashed into their room. He was kneeling on her chest with her hand in his mouth, he had fucking blood around his mouth. I'm ashamed to say it but I pulled him off her and threw him to the floor. Her entire hand was covered in bite marks, and really deep ones, bleeding everywhere and her index finger was blue and swollen. How could he have done so much damage in less than a minute? We consoled her, cleaned her up and put tcp and plasters on but her finger kept swelling and I saw she couldn't move it. DP took her to A&E and she needed to have skin glue on one wound and an x ray showed a small break to her finger. They have taped it to the next finger, and also wrapped a bandage over her whole hand as she's too young to know not to mess with it. I am furious, with DS but mainly with myself. We sat him down and showed him she is hurt and he said sorry, but he doesn't even know the true meaning.

How am I supposed to stop this sort of thing happening? What am I doing wrong?

goodnight. I'm sure things will be better in the morning.

You know I think at that age everything is interesting... so the screaming and yelling at what he is doing is very interesting. He's too young to empathise with his sister and understand that he is inflicting pain.

This must have been hideous for you and you have my sympathy. But I think you really will have to make sure that they are never left alone until he's old enough to understand the consequences of his actions - he's far too young just yet.

My two are 18 months apart and life was tough for a while. It's great now, though - much nicer to have them close together imo! You are going through hell now bu you'll reap the benefits later.

I'm sorry I don't normally feel so strongly about most matters, but this I do. You are doing nothing wrong. Please give your son all the love you are giving him, but please please please do not let your trying to placate him and comfort him for doing these things sideline your daughter to the point she feels that whatever her brother does is ok.

Really long convoluted sentence there, but I'm coming from the point of being in your daughter's position, and I am so upset for her. There is slightly over a year between me and my brother and this kind of behaviour was quite common from him. Thankfully i never ended up in hospital. But his behaviour was always put down to high jinks, being a boy, being the older one, looking after me etc. etc. Whenever i said anything,or tried to do anything about it I was always met with the same old excuses.

Now in our early/mid thirties we barely speak. Please do not let this happen to your dc's relationship.

Just typing this I am shaking and tears are crawling down my cheeks.

It's one thing to say your son might not remember what he has done, but your daughter will. And as they get older each and every incident will be etched on her brain.

Don't ignore his behaviour, carry on telling him his behaviour is not right, nor acceptable. It is imperative your daughter sees something is being done. She needs your help.

God - I have never shared anything so personal and deeply entrenched before.

Ami,you are dealing with a lot of things right now.I am sure your little boy did not realise how much he was hurting his sister.I think at this age they do "test the boundaries",hell they do it constantly.I would separate their sleeping arrangements and chalk it down to a scary experience.It is very hard with a small age gap it gets beter asthey get older but the sibling rivalry does continue to some extent.When older they will start to understand more .He is probably playing up if you are stressed-mine do,my oldests behaviour worsens when his daddy is hospitalised (dad has a chronic illness).

Best wishes,Wrinkly xx

She's going to remember an incident from when she was one year old?

No, but if this behaviour continues she will.

I've just seen the ages of the children in the subject. Hadn't noticed when I went off on one in my first post. Still hold by what I say though.

I can remember things from when I was two - and they're not unpleasant things that would make a big impression like this. So very important to address the behaviour now and not give him the opportunity to repeat it. ds1 whacked ds2 on the head with a wooden toy when they were 2yrs 3mnths and 9mnths. I was horrified and smacked ds1, then felt really guilty about letting it happen. That pales into insignificance compared with this situation, so the op has my sympathy.

If this behaviour continues, there's going to be a 25-year-old woman sleeping in the same bed as her 26-year-old brother, both evacuating their bowels into their pants.

I understand that your experience was unpleasant, but the point that most of the posters has made is that the (normal)behaviour relates to the ages of the children - I don't think what the OP needs is more concern that this will continue.

Fortyplus,yes it was awful but I think Miaous point addressed what should be done in future if such behaviour was repeated

It'll be OK,ami.

He's two, he's two he's two.

He's not still going to be two in five, ten, twenty years time.

My comments have, I admit, gone beyond helpful and become merely exasperated. But it is NOT my job to sit and tell people only what 'every mother wants to hear'.

Why don't you want to hear the advice to stop demonising your toddler's behavior? Because posting emotine messages about how he had blood around his mouth, and how furious with him you are, and your upset at him not knowing the meaning of sorry - it is implying that you feel his behavior is not normal.

And it is normal. He is displaying normal two year old responses to a nasty an painful injury he has inflicted (accidentally - because a 2 year old cannot do anything of that nature deliberately). He walloped his sister even though she was screaming, and it is normal for a child that age to behave that way.

I am not saying we accept it, I am not saying we don't deal with it in whatever way you deam to be appropriate, but really, was there anything anyone could have said here that could have made this better?

I am not going to try to make you feel better because that is not my forte, I leave it to others,, but just because my advice isn't packed off to you with Wuvs n Hugz n Sparkwy Fairwies to guide you on your way doesn't mean it is bad advice that was designed to make you feel like shit. I actually thought it was simply stating the obvious - children injure each other = don't leave them alone together.

Not sure what you are trying to say with your first sentence. Because if that is the case he will still be breaking her fingers.

What I am trying to say, however badly, is the son needs to understand what he is doing is wrong. He might not get it today, and it might take time. But he cannot get away with hurting his sister just because he can. And the daughter must be reassured that she has done nothing wrong.

Being annoying at a particular time does not warrant getting your fingers broken.

And believe me I wish to God this does not continue, not only for the op's children's sake, but for her own too.

sat here and thought hard about what to write.

I'm sort of in both camps here - and not great at putting my point across at the best of times (so please don't all pounce on me if it makes no sense )

While I agree with some of the posters who say don't demonise him, he's not a bully etc etc.

I'm (personally) don't think this is "totally" normal behaviour for a 2.5yr old - but not "unnormal" if that makes sense.

Yes 2.5yr olds hit, and love the reaction they get from others (especially younger siblings), but I disagree that they don't have any empathy/understanding at that age.

Having said that I think the suggestions from others above on how to deal with it are very good

Just read that back and it probably doesn't make sense to anyone else - but it does to me

"Because if that is the case he will still be breaking her fingers"

And being unable to read, count, tie shoelaces or drive a car?

Why are you so keen to see this child's (normal) behaviour continue past the point of normality?

now now Colditz - imagine how you'd feel if you walked in and saw one of your children with blood round their mouth, and their younger sibling screaming in pain??

God I still remember when DS2 got hold of a plastic cube and threw it full pelt at DS1 (was earlier this year - so aged 4 and 7) hitting him just above the eye. The time it took me to respond to DS1's instant howls of pain was less than 10 seconds and in that time the most almightly lump had appeared - and he got a black eye from it.

I was furious, I was upset that he didn't appear to be sorry at all.

I think it's probably a pretty normal reaction from a parent to what must have been a pretty awful event!

I have two children both really close in age and would be really upset at this, but I have to agree with Colditz on this that he is only a baby himself.

It is so easy to expect more of the older sibling, they seem so much bigger compared to the younger one, so much more advanced etc, but he is only a baby and will not have taken pleasure in hurting her.

It sounds like he is looking for attention, any attention and to him bad attention is just as good as anything.

I sometimes look at my three year old and think he is a big boy, but I understand that I expect a lot more of him as he has a little brother than fiends do of their three year olds when they have older siblings.

It is important to show him the damage he has done and explain to him that it is not right to hurt his sister and to keep drumming in the messgae, but just as important is to praise his good behaivior and spend time with him on his own.

Please dont lable him, he is just a child. He is not destined to keep doing this, they are just particularly willful and devious at this age.

I am sorry that this has happened, but do not let it define you as a family.

I am not keen on seeing this child?s behaviour continue>

And I did explain myself in my second paragraph>

Sure very young children don?t always understand ?sorry?< but also these incidences are not totally normal>

It is a horrible thing to have happened and hopefully the majority here will be proved right and he will grow out of it.

and now my keyboard has gone strange _ a sign for me to go to bed>

I have two close together as well - 18mnths apart. I would also have been horrified if ds1 had drawn that much blood and broken a finger. Pushing boundaries, biting, hitting are normal (sadly) areas of growing up. However, I have to admit I too would have been at a loss if my eldest had done that to his brother. Biting in frustration is one thing ( believe me I have had the teethmarks to prove it) but inflicting that kind of pain imo is not the standard behaviour of a small child. Take time out from this. Separate them at night if at all possible and try some positive reinforcement about good behaviour (using toys if necessary). Sorry you're having to go through this - all of you.

Another here who has 2 exactly the same age as yours and a 4 and half year old on top. My girls fight a lot over everything, they are irritated by each and dd2 will often hit dd1. I am lucky that neither have ever been through a bad biting stage but hairpulling they do with tremendous speed and grace.

I can understand you being mortified by your DS behaviour as I would be too however I would also be thinking they obviously need time apart and to be seperated. He is only 2 and doesnt have the same control as he will have in even 12mths time. I am lucky as my ds will often mediate between my dds who also share a room. I slightly stagger their bedtime so that dd2 will often be asleep before dd1 goes to bed so she can settle on her own with her own story and time.

Oh just to add when I was 7 my middle sister was 3 and hit me in the eye so I tried to strangle her by rolling the car window up on her throat
My sister also picked on my youngest sister[15mth gap] constantly from the day she was brought home from hospital yet now they are best of friends[22 and 23].
Just dont hold your ds overly accountable for what he has done as what he acts like now is no indication of how he will be in a year or 5yrs or 10!!

Gosh how upsetting, I was wincing as I read your OP as it was quite blood curdling.

I can completely relate, ds1 was horrific to Ds2 when he was born - it's easing a bit, well i say that, but he can still be quite cruel and it utterly breaks my heart to see ds2 crying when ds1 has hurt him.

I know from my recent experience that attention is the big answer here.
You can't do anything about what has already happened, and you will stop feeling so shocked by the incident yesterday and as he grows older you'll get to know him and realise he's fine and nice

BUT this is the crucial bit - NEVER leave them alone - if you must go do somehing, take the boy, or the baby,.It's like the fox and chicken getting across the river puzzle.

Take one with you. I do this and also try to give older one lots of attention, really, loads. He is tryingto get it and the nastiness will ease off if he gets it. I know it's fucking hard work but you kind of have no option - I hate it myself but things happening like this are the alarjm bell to just do it. Focus on him, lots of positive reinforcement and never leave them alone.

It will be ok xxxxxx

Sorry for crappy typos there! trying to rush.

When I have to go in the kitchen or something and he is in the mood to injure ds2, I say 'You come with me while I get your milk' etc et and he says why, and I say because I can't leave you alone with ds2, I need to know where you are' or sometimes if I'm feeling patient I nice it up a bit to seem like HE is the important one I need to be near

So he stands where I can keep an eye. Or I sweep up the baby and lug him with me too - harder work as making milk not easy with baby on arm!

Do you see what I'm saying? Separate them and let him know you are there. Hope you feel better and finger heals up soon xx

Agree with everything Colditzhas said.

And LOL at fortyplus. Your 2 year-old wacked the baby, so you wacked him back

Partly older one is saying with this behaviour 'mummy please take baby away, I can't handle my awful feelings about her' and if you take charge of baby, he feels safe again - from himself.

Ami-I hope that you are feeling better after a night's sleep.
SmugColditz was trying to be helpful, not launch an attack. Your DS is only a baby, he doesn't understand that other people get hurt by his actions.They are very close in age and he will have feelings of jealousy.
It is hard work to have two young DC's close in age (I have 20months apart).
You cannot leave them alone together, even for a minute. Make sure that the eldest gets lots of individual attention.I agree with Flllight.