Consequences for 6 year old who ruins every trip out

[20Twenty6]

What sort of consequences do you impose for a child who repeatedly ruins trips out? 6 year old DS. Used to be a pleasure to take out but the last 6-12 months just spends the whole time whinging loudly about every tiny thing, generally being obstructive and whining to go home every 2 minutes. I get that he’s tired, I get that school is hard, I get he prefers toys and TV (which we strictly limit as he’d watch all day otherwise) but we really don’t ask too much. We drove today to a wetland centre, first time out since the 23rd. Great play area, loads of stuff on for kids, got him a hot chocolate from the cafe, but still he was so so negative. We’ve tried to be really understanding and kind previously but I’m just totally fed up of his entitlement to be honest and feel we need to get tougher.

I’m sorry you are getting some negative and borderline judgemental replies.

The wetland wasn’t a bad idea if your other child enjoyed it! His needs are just as important.

Your older son really does sound ADHD. You say he has no imagination, which sounds like aphantasia, which is the inability to form mental images, and can be associated with ADHD and autism. (They can still learn visually, e.g. following diagrams or stories in comics - they just can’t conjure up their own images.) Also, children with ADHD tend to play in a self-focused way.

How is he with activities like colouring books, painting by numbers, or join the dots? Or doing jigsaw puzzles? It sounds like he needs instructions or a plan to follow for any hope of independent play. How do you think he would respond to learning a musical instrument?

Sympathy OP as my 6 year old sounds similar. Only thing that works for us is a good amount of time every day (at least 2 hours, ideally more) outside- but it can’t be an ‘organised’ type thing with lots of people- he likes walks in the woods where he can climb trees and scramble up and down banks, splashing in streams, trips to the beach (and ideally go in the sea in his wetsuit with one of us), scrambling on rocks. All sounds very annoying and wholesome and honestly I find it exhausting as I’m not massively outdoorsy and get cold so easily! But if we do that for a few hours, then it’s like his nervous system gets a chance to to relax or something, and he’ll then come home and happily play with Lego/draw/ whatever. My DD who is a few years younger will happily stay in all day long, snuggle in PJs, play, watch films- there is not a hope in hells chance he will ever do this without a decent dose of outdoor time. So I don’t think it’s anything you’re doing at all. I am hoping things get easier as he gets older. On the plus side he’s incredibly fit!!

We’re going through similar with our year 1 (age 5) child.
He has always loved the great outdoors, a great walker as we’ve got dogs and we are a very outdoorsy family but at the moment he’s quite moany and we had to had back early from a walk today.
I think the ramp up from foundation/reception to year 1 learning is mostly to blame. He is exhausted and irritable, he’s also been snotty for a good few weeks which definitely hasn’t helped.
Ours is the youngest of our children and I remember our summer born eldest being very similar until about year 3.
I still insist on going places, I ignore the wingeing as much as possible and try and include something that he considers a treat at the end.
If he is particularly out of sorts we do craft stuff at home and this seems to help ‘reset’ him, but we do also have a tv day every so often where he quite often falls asleep mid afternoon.
I would guess your little person is very tired!

Who are these days out for? If it's for their pleasure don't bother just let them get bored at home.
If for yours take ear plugs

My oldest was very like this and was diagnosed with autism at age 11. He struggles with new places/new people/changes to routine but wasn’t diagnosed until certain behaviour became age inappropriate. He is high achieving academically, socially typical when he’s comfortable - both of which made it less visible until he was older.

Not trying to armchair diagnosis but things became easier for us when we realised the negativity was actually anxiety and dysregulation.

I don't see anyone suggesting ignoring bad behaviour but rather understanding what will help him - autistic or adhd children just need more scaffolding than most children. That might involve thinking caregully about how much and where he can tolerate, what props might help (like fidget toys, food), explainining what's going to happen, checking in to see how he's doing, planning formal activities rather than expecting him to entertain himself. In fact, parenting a NT child like this is much more of a task for parents than "firm boundaries", which usually put all the onus on the child, with a punishment afterwards when they can't do it.

Telling them they are ruining the day and that they will lose stuff when they get home is not advisable for a neuro diverse child.

Does he watch those YouTube kids who have completely unrealistic lives?

Pep talk before you go

You lay out your expectations … I will not entertain any whinging… moaning …. complaining

If you play nice and behave - or whatever you want to work on … , you can have an extra 1/2 on the ipad.

You know his currency - use it

You are being too "hands and minds" on. Let him get bored and he will be creative. When you go out let him know what he will experience and what behavior is expected of him, especially if a friend is with him. Do not encourage inappropriate behavior. He has to learn socially acceptable attitudes, even at 6. If he is an only child you could be enabling his controlling ways that everyone has to accept his moods, and this has to stop. Do not disregard his choice of activities, but tell him he has to be polite and accept other peoples choices as well as his own. I know he is 6 yo but social manners should be learned otherwise he will not have friends when older.

Hmm 🤔 you were out yesterday which was Boxing Day .
Christmas Eve and Christmas Day are full on , so I think maybe more time to decompress is needed .

Op my son was a bit like this at 6.

Never liked creative/role play. Always wanted someone to play with him.

Things that helped:

• reading clicked. He now reads loads
• he got very into board and card games. There are quite a few you can play yourself like patience, we also got him a chess game that plays against you.
• he got old enough for things like a magnetic darts board that he can play by himself.
• he started learning music and enjoyed doing this
• he got into sport - but not football! Try something else, taekwondo, tennis, cricket, rugby, swimming. Football at this age is dominated by boys who are fast runners and if you aren't its crap.
• he's 9 so almost of an age to just be able to play out with other neighbouring kids and this helps enormously.

Re boundaries:

• we did have to be firmer about not tolerating whinging. We would start a day off with an explanation that this was something other people wanted to do, and if he got on with it and didn't moan, we could do what he wanted when we got home. He quickly learned he didn't get what he wanted if he ruined everyone else's fun.
• we also had to train him to occupy himself. Toddler style. 5 mins at first and building up to longer.

You say you understand he is tired. You dont seem to understand though. He sounds miserable which he expressess as acting out. Thats the +way that small children use to communicate. You are not listening or interested to find out whats going on for him.

Wetlands in this weather? I'd be moaning too

Sometimes they need a reality check. I have a 6yo who is intense and moans a lot.. I tell him straight up “stop moaning and appreciate where we are”. Or “please tell me what’s bothering you, I am here to help you, but if you are moaning then it’s not easy to help you”

Such hard work for you! I had three small children at the same time and trips were never the lovely idyllic days I imagined!

Have you tried giving him a choice of 2? Or have maybe 5 things you want to do this week which would you like to do today? Or as others have said, talk through what the day will involve? Was it a long journey?

I must admit if someone had made me go on a wetland trip today I'd have sulked an awful lot! Another day maybe not so much. I have many ADHD traits. It's a big space and I wouldn't have been up for it. We travelled a lot with our kids (cities due to dh's work and if I had £100 for every time they wanted to leave somewhere marvellous to go back to the hotel to swim or sleep I'd be very rich!!

These days will pass.

Worst one? Dinner in Helsinki with some of dh's colleagues (important colleagues and they invited us much as I tried to delcine!!) - we were told it was a child friendly place. Dd2 was a fussy eater probably about your son's age. Due to TV filming upstairs, menu was restricted. Dd picked up her plate and dropped it on the floor to smash saying it was horrible. (She may have had a point but even so!) I was mortified. Took her out to sit on the step (freezing in winter, no coats, no money for cab back to hotel which was too far and my phone was inside. Colleagues were lovely but it was all awful.

I tell you this as said dd is now 30, a scout leader and all round caring fully functioning member of society with a degree, a partner and a home.

But I feel for you as it's horrible and feels like it'll go on forever. Pick your battles x

I would be looking at whether he is ND

You mention social interaction being a problem - he prefers to be in his own world at home- finds transitions between situations difficult (ie. cosy home/ outside in a place he doesn't know and isn't familiar to him) -

Feels uncomfortable/stressed at a wetlands - probably because he doesn't know it/ he can't do his own focused activities??

I would want to consider autism in this situation - not for definite but just in the sense that any child whose behaviours seems in sevweral ways to deviate from 'the norm' - may well be ND.

by. the way - being fine in school at 6 years old is not relevant to whehter or not he is autistic - he is very young and may be doing okay at the moment - my daughter is autistic and school struggles didn't begin until about year 4.

I also - personally - do really believe in working out what works rather than stressing that a child 'should' like something

I mean - 'should' he love a wetlands? is it a normal child behaviour to love a new environment with no friends to play withou, all his toys are at home, he is with grown ups?

Some kids will like it, some adults will - some won't.

If he prefers X to Y - go with X.

I think something like a wetlands is a classic adult activity where chidlren are sometimes going to enjoy it if the mood is right but generally - you might find he prefers the outdoors if it's predictable or he has friends with him.

Oh and mine isn't remotely ND.

He is a happy well behaved boy, does well at school, loads of friends.

A lot of boys don't occupy themselves well. 50 years ago they would just have been mucking about in a pack outdoors.

Ive got 2 boys the same ages and could have written some of this although mine are NT.
Neither of them really play with toys, and we go out every day because staying in the house descends into fighting. Even though they fight they don't want to be separated so the duplo incident would happen here too, and if one child was removed, the other would probably then take the duplo to him anyway.
I've stopped almost all treats outside the house so they know where they stand and its pointless whining for them. Treats such as hot chocolate would have to be earned from playing nicely for a while first.
We've tried ignoring the bad and praising the good, consequences, redirecting, punishment. We're currently trying time outs with some success.
Food helps, we get more difficult behaviour when hangry, so a solid breakfast like porridge, then slow release snacks every couple of hours.
We wouldn't manage a day out, but I've invested in a couple of season tickets, one for the dreaded stately homes, as a few of them close by have fantastic outdoor play areas that don't get busy. The other is a season pass for a kids place with animals, soft play etc. Because we're not paying by the day, there's no time pressure for arrival, the place is fun but familiar and we can just go for a couple of hours (less if the whining and misbehaving gets too much) without any regrets or recriminations.
Whilst my 6yo won't play with toys, he'll spend hours building lego, doing dot to dots, colour by numbers, mazes etc or just drawing pictures. I'm in the process of bagging up most of their toys as its pointless but will buy him as many dot to dot books as he wants.
Hope it gets better.

Have you got a trampoline even in winter we'll wrapped up he could burn some energy there.
Don't punish him for having an undiagnosed disability, he probably can't help the way he is, he needs support, not easy l know.

Exactly the same for my relative. Sounds like the OPs son, quite clingy, didn't like playing alone at all (except Lego), disliked being out on family trips from a young age (complained a lot), later diagnosed with mild Autism. I look back and feel bad we were pushing them to 'have fun' when they clearly didn't like it.

@20Twenty6 I get that school is hard

lol.

No. It’s posters on here who are the problem. To be fair I’m on a thread where everyone has an excuse for giving their little ones a smartphone. Kids are suppose to be part of our lives and learn. They do not get to demand adults go home.

What you've said about him directing play and struggling with transitions has me asking questions - does it take a huge amount of effort and cajoling to get him ready for an outing? Like getting dressed, getting shoes and coat on, getting into the car? Does every step feel like he's delaying and delaying and making up random rules that stop him from being ready? Does he struggle with any basic life skills like going to the loo, or eating, or bathing or sleeping? Does he spend quite a bit of time roleplaying, using characters and storylines from programmes or videos he's seen? Let me know if this sounds familiar and I can recommend some content you might find helpful xx

Oh I really really feel for you on this OP! My daughter used to do dangerous things and wind up her (older) brother by screaming in his face when he had a migraine etc when she was younger. She used to take the straps off her car seat and shove her hands down her throat to make herself gag, or scream and throw things so I couldn't concentrate on driving. She would sabotage any reward based behaviour methods and made up her own languages that she then expected us to know and respond in. And I spent hours and hours repeating scenes and being told off for getting them 'wrong'. Again, please do reply if you'd like further info. She's 16 now and still very intense, but a lot calmer now. We had to ditch traditional parenting completely which I know some people will mock, but I feel you have to parent the child you have rather than the one you expected xxx