Consequences for 6 year old who ruins every trip out

[20Twenty6]

What sort of consequences do you impose for a child who repeatedly ruins trips out? 6 year old DS. Used to be a pleasure to take out but the last 6-12 months just spends the whole time whinging loudly about every tiny thing, generally being obstructive and whining to go home every 2 minutes. I get that he’s tired, I get that school is hard, I get he prefers toys and TV (which we strictly limit as he’d watch all day otherwise) but we really don’t ask too much. We drove today to a wetland centre, first time out since the 23rd. Great play area, loads of stuff on for kids, got him a hot chocolate from the cafe, but still he was so so negative. We’ve tried to be really understanding and kind previously but I’m just totally fed up of his entitlement to be honest and feel we need to get tougher.

I think the problem is you plan outings to places with stuff to do.

Maybe tell him you are going out but he can pick what to do. It might be jumping in puddles or visiting a neighbour's dog.

Can he ride a bike yet? Learning would get you both out of the house.

Take him for a picnic. Warm clothes, flask of hot chocolate, and whatever his favorite food is.

Hi
Not a child expert and HRFT but following Dr Chelsey Parenting. Her philosophy is that kids are usually doing their best and if there are behavioural issues, there is an unmet need to resolve.

But truthfully I've no idea what that need might be in your case, does he have transition issues, get car sick, problems with another child or parent?

Anyway, hope you fix it, I'm not sure consequences will gain you anything other than further issues down the line.

My reception aged child does have some SEN, but we have found that explaining what is going to happen clearly really helps him enjoy days out.

We count on our fingers, something like 1- go in the car, 2- run around and play, 3- stop in a cafe, 4- drive home.

He likes to remind us what step comes next and it seems to help him feel more comfortable. And if he complains or asks to do something else we can refer him back to the plan 🤷‍♀️

His younger brother has no SEN that we know of, but the same process works for him too.

Is he very bendy by any chance?

Sorry to add to the conflicting advice, but from what you’ve written it seems very plausible he is high functioning ND. I understand the fear, but a diagnosis doesn’t “change” your child. In our paperwork driven world, it is the key to unlocking support from actual child development experts, so you don’t have to seek advice from randomers on mumsnet who have never met your child.

If school won’t help (they may be seeing none of this behaviour if he masks all day), please look into pursuing it through your GP or privately. If he is ND, early diagnosis will be very beneficial. If he’s not, then you have that knowledge and look at other possible causes and strategies.

In all honesty wetlands in December sounds bloody awful.

But if it's every trip to every place then I'd do two things. First, ask him about what he enjoyed, name 3 things you liked best etc. to get him considering benefits rather than problems. Second I would introduce a bingo card for every whinge that you play as a family. But my approach is to gently piss take which works for us but might not for everyone.

DS is 8 and was diagnosed AuDHD at age 6, honestly it was a relief as you get an explanation for all the behaviour you are struggling with. Diagnosis gives you the reason and then you need to find the strategies that work for him and you. Talk to school as he may be masking there then it all releases at home and you get it full force at home.

Even with no diagnosis try some of the the parenting strategies for AuDHD kids and you may find some improvements. It’s very much carrot and not stick. Your DS sounds similar to mine, although mine will do sports. He can also play independently and will go and get toys himself. When he was younger I’d help him set something up (like brio) and then he’d play with it for ages.

We took the kids out for a few hours on Boxing Day as they needed to run off some energy and they actually asked to go out, I don’t think it’s unusual to take the kids for a run around on Boxing Day.

It seems sounds like he may have some form of mild ND but without going down a several year process and in order to be able to cope now, I would suggest you focus on structure for him. Use pictures the day before to show him where you will go and plan the visit in the form of a list and take that with you. Take a snack to eat as soon as you get there. He can sit and just adapt to the new surroundings, then let him tick off the activities from the list. Make sure the last thing on the is Go Home and have a picture of your house and his favourite toy. Get a visual timer (sand timers or something without an alarm beeper are great). Have some ear defenders or sunglasses in your bag. Busy play areas and bright sunshine are sensory triggers, as are frosty days and dogs barking. And smells. Don't expect a whole day out, maybe just half an hour and then any longer will be a bonus. You may find its not ND and just a phase, but whatever is causing it you can have strategies to help. Hey help everyone not just ND
Don't assume that because he can talk he can remember a whole sequence of events. Photos/pictures are such valuable tools.
The timers will also help to at home with structured play and "down time". He may struggle with imaginary play and so prefers the 1:1 aspect, but if he likes a TV show then give yourself short break by using that. Again on a structured visual list of activities for the day, and this list can include some small helpful jobs like putting socks into a pile and pairing them for you or wiping a table etc... all huge life skills that he will need, but can do (eventually) independently but for now in the same room as you.
I was you 20 years ago and I promise it will get better.

I’m sorry you’re struggling it’s a shit feeling that maybe it’s your parenting but really it isn’t. I really understood after having my second who was an incredibly easy small child that some children are a lot easier to parent than others so ignore judgey comments for people patting themselves on the back for their great parenting who simply have easy kids!
it sounds highly likely your son is ND. A lot of what you have said is similar to my eldest at that age. You have to understand he is not having a tantrum but a meltdown.
As others have said give plenty of warning and info about where you are going - show photos from online. Offer simple choices so he feels in control. Sometimes with ND children that need a lot of input you just have to give in to more screen time than you’d like so everyone gets a break. Don’t beat yourself up about it.
My son is 14 now and things are very different yes he has challenges but we enjoy days out and holidays. His imagination suddenly exploded around 10. He also later and still does play really well with his younger brother (4 year gap).
My son was very quiet at school as he did everything he could to stay under the radar and would then explode at home.
When we went to online learning in Covid it was a relief for school to see him in full meltdown mode.
Find a local parents group for ND parents (most don’t need a diagnosis) where you can get some support and advice without judgement

You've had a tough time on this thread OP.
I haven't a clue as mine is long past this stage.

Could you get a basketball hoop? There's a clear rule (get the ball through the hoop), uses physical energy, no need to interact so mentally he is resting, you could get him started then check in on him intermittently etc.

Can you find a place and go there frequently? That reduces the unknown. We went to the same garden centre/woods and the same holiday park a LOT of times between ages 4 and 12! National Trust can be good too as lots of elements the same.

I would actually take him out more. I know that seems a bit weird but children tend to get more tricky when routine is changed. I can't be in the house the whole time and have to go out every day so my children had to go out as well. They didn't really question it or complain because that is what we did. A bit like eating lunch at lunch time. Obviously, most days it was something low key, but everyday they went out for at least an hour before lunch (usually a lot longer). They also needed the exercise otherwise they would get difficult and wouldn't sleep.

Many children can't play like this. There can be several reasons for it. One is being unable to plan and organise, which is an executive function skill - if you can't plan, you genuinely can't string together an activity.

Other children will be neuro diverse and have no creative play and poor social skills - they will prefer to line things up, they won't want to play with other children, they will prefer to dovthe same things over and over.

Others, though I see the OP's child is academically able, will have learning disabilities and will need adults or more able children to lead the play.

Anxious children will want to stay close and will be scared to explore a new place.

Somewill have a mixture of the above.

Stop the trips out. They’re not fun, so what’s the point?

Don’t be in hock to some “perfect” lifestyle which involves trips out, if that’s holding you back. Deal with the life you’ve got.

If the rest of you want a trip out, organise some childcare for him and go without him. He may notice he’s missing out and change his ways, or he may not, but at least you get a nice peaceful trip out.

Have you got a garden?

This was my child.
Ignore people who are saying it's a parenting issue.
We role played, played Lego, introduced independent play toys and games, modelling how to explore. ALL OF IT. He still wouldn't play alone. Some kids are just like this. I know because other child is completely different.

No, he doesn't have adhd. No he doesn't have autism. No he's not a bad kid.
In other past eras, he would be entertained by other kids on the street, but this is just not what happens these days. He was better with a friend at these sorts of outings though. By himself was never a good time, he always whinged.

If it's any consolation, now at 14, he is a great kid, lots of friends. He does a lot of gaming...but you know what? He has friends, he is sociable and does very well at school. Kids have different personalities. Parents who have kids that can amuse themselves just have that kind of kid - it isn't their great parenting.

Doesn't sound within the realm of normal naughtiness. I'd investigate ND. But you don't really need a diagnosis to implement coping mechanisms now.

I'm joining the chorus of people who have ND children and see my children in your description of your son. Mine are autistic and ADHD with a demand avoidant profile.

How often do you ask for his input on where you go? You might think wetlands are a great day out and he should be happy about it, but what if he would rather go to the little park round the corner, where its small, quiet and predictable? The easiest way to get my kids to go somewhere is to make them feel like their voices have been heard. If they'd rather go to the crap little park around the corner, that's where we go rather than a park i decided was better. We save the better park for the days they're regulated enough to cope with it. It wouldn't be my first choice but it's what they need, not what i want. Ultimately, they'd still be out in the fresh air running around.

Also he may appear to be fine at school, but he might not be. ND children are very very good at masking. The fact he's displaying this behaviour at home suggests that he is in fact, not fine at school, if he's coming home from school dysregulated. Don't rely on school staff to help you work out what's going on as well - most teachers have about an hour of SEN training and are woefully unprepared to identify or support ND children.

My children thrive when they're given autonomy - not always having things decided for them and then they're made to comply with it. He's trying to tell you in his 6 year old way that he needs more rest and more autonomy. I know lots of parents that are threatened by the idea of their child having the ability to decide where they go and what they do, but it's rather essential if you don't want to have to keep putting up with the "behaviour" that is more than likely him trying to let you know he's tired, overwhelmed and over stimulated and he just wants to stay at home with his toys.

Edit: i know you said he doesn't rest, but for ND brains, rest doesn't necessarily look like laying on the sofa quietly watching TV or reading. Rest can take many forms but it's essentially the person doing whatever it is that makes them feel like themselves.

The situation with him not being able to play on his own and ruining his brother's game - that could be equalising behaviour where he's frustrated and takes it out on his brother as the weakest person in the room. He needs more supervision and you need to step in when he starts to get dysregulated not wait till it's already happened. Some children just aren't developmentally capable of playing by themselves, especially if he perceived that his brother was getting all the attention from his parent.

Also look up declarative language and low demand parenting. It's changed our lives for the better.

I posted earlier and just want to add that you could look at pictures of the place you went, but on a different day when hes calm and ask him what it felt like there. Ask him in very simple lanuage, using the photos to tell you one he saw, one thing he smelled, one thing he liked and one thing he didnt. My son, despite having very reduced language was able to tell me things clearly, like he hates the floor in some play areas (bark chippings), hates the smell of animals, felt strange in sunshine under trees and that he was hungry and scared he would miss lunch. But he could only tell me after the event. Not when he was stressed and wanted to come home....

What time has he been going to bed over the Xmas period? Maybe he is tired … is he actually getting enough sleep. Sprinting around at 8am might be fine, but could hit the wall by lunchtime if he went to bed late. All the over eating and excitement makes it even worse.

My 8yo DD has likely Autism. She hates going for walks, hides before we leave and complains when walking. She's a tip toe walker so it is likely/possible her legs get sore, but she needs exercise to strengthen as well as the other health and well-being benefits being out in the woods etc brings.

We talk about how there are lots of times she gets choices about what she does and where she goes (which is absolutely true, we try to accommodate as much as possible), but sometimes as parents we have to decide and it's our choice.

I then either make light (oh it's torture? Yes all parents are told they need to torture their kids on a regular basis 😉) or be empathetic to a limited extent but don't get into explaining/ arguing and try not to let it bother you.

I do hope you've had a few calming days without checking in on the thread.

In case you ever do feel like coming back - I find it helps hugely to cultivate a sense of who on MN is giving advice based on experience vs who is giving advice based on "vibes" or what they think would "probably" work in the situation described.

IME the "vibes" posters are who is giving the conflicting advice. People who have been there tend to give advice that boils down to roughly the same thing. And some of the "vibes" posters are living in a fantasy world and making up theories in their own heads which bear no resemblance to reality.

Don't stress about him being ND. If he is - at least it's nothing you've done. And the reason most normal advice makes no sense is because it's written for a different child. That doesn't mean you're getting everything wrong, it means you've been given the wrong advice. If you get some info about this then it means you can look for more appropriate advice which will likely be much more helpful.

Oh and the other thing to bear in mind is even with people who have experience - sometimes we forget what it was like to be back at the start of everything. You cannot change everything about your entire life and parenting approach overnight, it's not realistic. Sometimes when people are giving run-downs of everything that they would have done differently, it's not done so much to make you think oh great, well, I'm just getting everything wrong - it's more to show that there are other things to consider which might not have been clear or obvious (because most people don't need to consider these things) and/or just to say what their everyday life is life in comparison.

We have all been there and we know that it takes time. Don't stress about it. You are doing all the right things with asking questions and with trying to put things in place like going out etc. Don't let what feels like a lot of little criticisms get to you. x

His behaviour sounds a lot like my DS (age 5) who I suspect has autism (with PDA). Obviously I don’t know your son but so many things you describe tally with my experiences. I don’t have the answers but I would strongly urge you not to blame yourself or your parenting. You cannot consequence away neurodiversity, if this is what’s causing his behaviour.

A key factor in whether we have a successful outing is whether he needs the loo. He holds in number ones and twos which (understandably) puts him in a foul mood, and leads to meltdowns. His refusal to go has ruined many a day out for us and I can’t begin to tell you how frustrating this is. It can be part of PDA. So we always make sure he sits on the loo 10 mins each morning (and we stay with him to ensure he does it). For us this is essential as it’s the root cause of a lot of his behavioural issues. Something to consider maybe.

I would agree that he has autistic/ADHD traits. Look into autistic masking in school and PDA profile. Dr. Naomi Fisher has excellent online courses especially on low demand parenting which has worked wonders for our autistic 7 year old. Your son seems to need a lot of movement so might be a sensory seeker. I’d get lots of sensory items for home- e.g. bean bags, crash mats, cocoon swings, weighted blankets, spinning chair. Also a tent in a corner for sensory breaks. I would recommend an OT assessment as a start.

I am in no means trying to diagnose. However, my son has ADHD and this could have described him in a nutshell when he was younger. He has boundless energy but only for things that interest him. He will moan relentlessly if we have do something that he hasn't chosen to do. He will ride his bike anywhere but walking is tiring. He also presents with a demand avoidant profile, so being told to do something is usually met with resistance.

That being said, it is important that he doesn't just control every day for all of us. I try to give him choices, usually between two activities. I make sure I plan in outside and indoor time, allowing him to decompress with screens for some time during the day. He is very easily overwhelmed by sensory stimulation, so this is a factor that I take into account when we go out. Long car journeys are particularly difficult so are planned well in advance.

This could well be a stage for your child, but I think this is something to keep an eye on. If there is any element of neurodiversity, then school could be exhausting him more than you know and this could be reflecting in the attitude at home.