Consequences for 6 year old who ruins every trip out

[20Twenty6]

What sort of consequences do you impose for a child who repeatedly ruins trips out? 6 year old DS. Used to be a pleasure to take out but the last 6-12 months just spends the whole time whinging loudly about every tiny thing, generally being obstructive and whining to go home every 2 minutes. I get that he’s tired, I get that school is hard, I get he prefers toys and TV (which we strictly limit as he’d watch all day otherwise) but we really don’t ask too much. We drove today to a wetland centre, first time out since the 23rd. Great play area, loads of stuff on for kids, got him a hot chocolate from the cafe, but still he was so so negative. We’ve tried to be really understanding and kind previously but I’m just totally fed up of his entitlement to be honest and feel we need to get tougher.

I could’ve written this about my 25 yo all those years ago.. she is ND and only diagnosed in the last few months when infact I noted it a good few years ago (not when in school!) but typically she masked, and “odd” behaviour when at home etc.
every day out felt ruined for our other children when she was young, she just got so overwhelmed. Moaning too, used to drive me mad because days later she’d speak of it like it was the best day out when infact the rest of us were left with rotten memories of it.
independent play wasn’t for her either however she loved instruction and timers so we’d use this a lot.. we’ll do this in “turn timer over” and then you’ll have me/dad/both for X amount of time. She could cook a 3 course meal by 8 because she was a limpit to whoever was busy so she learnt quickly to help.

no real advice, just know you are not alone!

Hi op
Your son sounds EXACTLY like my eldest son.

Turned out he is autistic. And it was just way too much for him to be out for too long.

If this is a possibility (I've only skimmed the thread) then a few things that worked for us were:

Plenty of warning to help with the transition.

Clear idea of what would happen and any expectations. DS found it very hard to enjoy things that didn't have A clear purpose. So soft play, parks, museums etc were better than just going out for a walk (unless we were walking to a specific place)

Bringing his Nintendo DS (this was mainly when he was A bit older though) because that's what he used to help regulate himself. So if we knew we'd be out for more than a couple of hours we would take it and make sure there was a place he could sit and have a cup of tea and play on his DS.

Not blaming him for spoiling it. Confession time- I did this way too much before I realised why he was behaving this way and I can see now that for him he was then constantly being blamed for ruining things when actually he was just unhappy and struggling. Clearly I now feel awful!

He also tends to really cling to the negatives. So, we could have a great day out and he would enjoy it, but he'd then complain bitterly about the one tiny thing he didn't like. I found that exhausting!

He's 20 now! And still very much a homebody, but it can be manageable if you just work out what makes him more comfortable when out.

Agree with previous posters. Tell him beforehand what the day will entail, tell him he is not the only person in the world and it doesn’t revolve around him and that if he is well behaved he can have some tv time when he gets back but if he isn’t he can’t and stick to it.

He seems to have transitioned from tantrum to whinging. I woukd make efforts to keep him amused and engaged on outings but ignore him whinging.

Could you leave him there until he improves 😃. Seriously you need to ve strong otherwise he'll rule the roost.

Why do you keep taking him?

Other kids?
You want to go?
You think he should like it?
You think it's something you should do as a family?

(No need to answer here)

Some people have a fixed idea about what family should do. (I still feel slightly twitchy that we don't do seaside holidays like my birth family did but it doesn't suit any of us)

Sometimes we need to stop and think why we are doing stuff to work out whether it is worth keeping on the same way if it is making you miserable, whether you can adapt it, do it at a different time/shorter time/quieter time, with different people etc)

Honestly maybe I’m too harsh but I’d force him to attend a weekly activity, he’s 6 not 2. (I’m assuming there’s no nd)
I’d say any whinging at all and there’s no tv whatsoever. I think it makes being lazy and ‘off’ an easy option...I wouldn’t let him watch any if he can’t equally handle any other kind of activity. I don’t think what you’ve described is overly taxing so I don’t see why he’d be so tired. I think Tv time should only be given once he can participate in a normal activity like a reasonable walk and a sitting in a cafe for 20 minutes. He wants to watch tv because it’s an easy activity and rewards his brain with zero effort. I would be keeping him away from computer games because as soon as he’s got that first fix I think you’d struggle to get him off it. Lots of luck! You could try rewards for no whinging - eg a whole day of no whinging and you can watch 30m tv (or give an alternative prize if you’d struggle to turn it off..)

Is he an introvert? I am, and would have preferred staying home rather than going out as a kid, unless it was somewhere I really wanted to go AND it was a warm, sunny day! I haven’t changed! 😆 Home is calm and predictable, going out after the excitement of Christmas Eve and Christmas Day is too much stimulation for an introvert! Talk to your son, ask him
what he prefers to do, he might not like days out at all, hence saying he wants to go home constantly, because er, that’s where he wants to be!

A day at the Wetland Centre sounds lovely. Was it the one in Barnes, west London, by any chance? It's really nice for kids there.

My DSD used to behave like this at that age and we suspect she is ND.

We did manage to get her out of the pattern a bit by ignoring the 'drama'. Might sound harsh but she was ruining things for everyone, including the other kids and including herself. The more attention her behaviour received (including being told off), the worse she got.

She's 11 now and really good company. There is hope!!

My DS was always better on outings with friends his own age to run around with, so I’d either meet up with mum friends and their kids or offer to take a friend with us for the day. Sympathise with days in the house being hard - remember it well. It does get better.

Some kids are like this, I think they get mentally exhausted from school so if they have the opportunity on weekends and holidays to stay at home, they'd rather do that.

It's amazing the level of academic qualification and expertise required to diagnose a child with ADHD etc, yet 100+ mumsnetters can do so without ever having met the child or observed him in school.

Why should all children be creative? Why would we expect them to pretend play when we are in the same room as them?

Before each trip talk about where you're going and the behaviour you expect, so he knows beforehand. Say what you're going to do and not going to do, what you're going to buy and not going to buy. Then the expectation is set. Then say what will happen if he doesn't behave - no TV, no screen time, no sweets or whatever you decide.

Hi OP, I’m not surprised you’re exhausted, it sounds really hard and demoralising.

Just a couple of things: what’s the outside space like in your own home? It sounds like your DS needs loads of energetic exercise but that going out somewhere to do that is sometimes too much for him. Maybe work on the outside space as an all-weather, familiar space where he can run around and get rid of some excess energy if that’s possible?

Secondly (and this is really hard to implement because it goes against the grain to start with) but when I was teacher training, we were taught to manage behaviour by giving our best attention to the behaviour we wanted. The trainer modelled it by showing a class of kids waiting to go into a classroom and one child ripping up paper and chucking it around. Teacher approaches, sees what is going on but initially ignores the mess and says to the kids waiting nicely ‘Fantastic waiting guys, you get to go in first, off you go…and you’re waiting calmly so in you go….and great waiting from you, in you go.’ Barely looked at misbehaving child…’wait there please’ until everyone else was in the classroom, quickly says to last child ‘ Pick that up please, then come and sit down and I don’t expect that again.’. It deals with the situation without lavishing the person with attention as some kids will take negative attention over none at all. You also have to be massively on the ball about noticing children doing the right thing and commenting on it. It starts to change the atmosphere into one where attention and praise goes to the right sort of behaviour which helps you as the adult but also helps the children to understand what you’re looking for. When it came to whinging, I would turn to a child who wasn’t whinging (I did this with my own kids too!) and say, ‘well you’re asking so nicely, that’s definitely a yes’ or ‘I can’t hear any complaining over here so I’d love to hear what you think first’ before saying to the whinging child ‘Sorry I don’t listen to whinging, I’m looking forward to hearing your nice voice’..or something similar! Then when they speak nicely, be very attentive and give praise. Honestly, you end up feeling a lot better yourself when you’re praising rather than correcting all the time! It’s really worth investing in.

good luck!

Without wanting to be “that mum” this sounds very like my neurodivergent child at that age. First year at school and thought I had a changeling. It was only as I learned more about Autism and ADHD (he has both) that I realised that “all behaviour is communication”. As someone else has said, this might be that he is overwhelmed and over-stimulated. Many “high-functioning” ND people get overlooked because they seem to cope with most things, but are labelled as having ‘behavioural problems’. Don’t get me wrong, whinging and whining isn’t an appropriate response, but he is still only 6 and needs guidance. I found picture boards to be a real help to mine and not to do too much.

The first Christmas at school, my (only just) 4 year old was a NIGHTMARE and to my eternal shame, Father Christmas left him a note saying he’d been too naughty for presents and that if he “behaved” he could have his presents later. I was at the end of my tether and it was only when my best friend suggested trying techniques for kids with LD that the penny dropped.

I know it seems “trendy” for kids to be neurodivergent these days, but that is the first thing I thought of because it reminded me so much of my DC.

Christmas is really hard for us neurospicy people as it’s full on with a lot of expectations. Try and learn how to communicate on his level so he can communicate with you. I know it’s really hard, but the payoff is worth it, I promise.

He sounds just like my daughter at that age, she is now 17 and smashing life, you wouldn’t know to meet her but she has autism. She hated anything she wasn’t controlling, never ever played with anything or cared about anything (couldn’t take anything away as a punishment as she didn’t care) she would moan and wine about every single thing. No friends, or not for long as she would moan about them especially if they didn’t do what she said. I could go on and on, she made life difficult for a long time. This lasted until she was about 12 (sorry 🙈) when she realised she has free will in the world!

now she understands what is socially acceptable, she will apologise but doesn’t mean it for a second! She just understands it has to happen. She is the life and soul of any party, but she will change just like that and retreat for alone time. If she is pushed too far that 6 year old behaviour will return. As said earlier I could go on and on about her struggles. People who don’t know just accept her for who she is now, she works, did amazing in her GCSE exams and is smashing 6th form.

i know it’s tedious and actually bloody annoying having a child like this, autism or not it’s okay to want to throw them of a cliff! My only regret is not telling her, I told her off, I gave consequences, I dragged her home so many time for spoiling everyone’s fun, but I didn’t ever tell her how she made people feel, she tells me now she didn’t know because she just got told off (rightly so) she thinks if she had been explained to and understood she may have learned quicker, once I began to show her my emotions and explain why she got so much better. Now she reads my face and knows, she does the same to other people and much more chilled out.

we laugh at our house with this saying ‘if we had of told her we were going to Disney Land, she would have said ‘is there a cafe’ and how long do I have to stay 🤣 no excitement what so ever!

it gets better OP boundaries and explanation is my advice and maybe food!

Would try a timetable for the day where everybody gets to do something of their choosing at some point during the day or if that's not possible everybody knows what's happening in which order.

Would look at safe (ie. be wary of trampolines) outdoor play equipment for the garden if you have one so there's somewhere he can use all of the energy without having to go on a trip out. If that's not possible look up local and slightly further away parks.

You need to think about the potential sensory overload of the places you're visiting and pick ones providing less of a sensory challenge to your elder son. Some places offer quiet hours which may help. I imagine a lot of people think of soft play as sensory hell - too noisy / weird acoustics etc but if that's a good sensory experience for your son you can build on it.

If you're planning trips out because everybody needs a change of scene don't focus on places you're expecting the children to enjoy - go simpler - a walk along an outdoor shopping street to find everybody some socks or similar.

At that age, if I asked my (late diagnosed) adhd child to play in their room, it didn’t usually work-if I asked them to take something up to their room, they often forgot to come back and I would discover them engrossed with playing in their bedroom half an hour later 😂

Sounds very like my son at that age. Recently diagnosed asc and adhd

I had one like that. They’re 14 now. Turns out they were ADHD/ASD with a PDA profile.
To be honest, I work in a school and I still want to hibernate. I am not over the exhaustion of the autumn term and I’ve only been out twice since we broke up. I’m also ND.
You have a couple of options….you could give a limited choice of outing (here or here), ignore the negative comments and don’t rise to them, especially if they have got him the result he’d intended previously (going home), keep outings short. You could tell them that going out together is part of being a family and they need to deal with it whether they like it or not. Up to you what your boundaries are.

I have 3 ND kids and I empathise with a lot of what you describe. The lack of imaginative play and being unable to play alone, while also struggling to cope when out is exhausting!

have you tried arts and crafts? If he likes Lego maybe he would like to follow some simple craft instructions? Paint by numbers if he likes that (or gem art things) can keep them occupied for good chunks of time.

if it is ND then maybe explain when you are going and what you will be doing there- with pictures of the place. This can help. Also do the same days out to the same places so he learns the place and you may find he can then relax and enjoy it more.

another trick is give him a task/job for when you are out. Schools use this trick a lot. I’ve not had success but I’ve been advised by other parents of ND kiddos to give them a job eg in charge of the water bottles or finding the most interesting stone on every outing.

schools are well known for not seeing ND when it there. And lots of ND kids mask at school so they can’t always be criticised for that tbh. If he’s masking at school then he will be worse at home as he will be letting it all out. School also has set routine and expectations, there is almost certainly other ND kids in the class and visual timetables. It’s not ideal but you could create a visual timetable for home- I used to have one that had my routine on it too so my controlling needy child would better cope with the times I was unavailable because I was sorting dinner (and because I was limiting screen time so had that on there so he’d be able to see when it was allowed).

Also, remove the expectation that your DS has to enjoy an outing. You want to go out so he has to go with you! That can help reduce anxiety from him.

I'm sorry but ,I'm not perfect ,saintly, parent but getting TOUGH with a SIX YEAR OLD ?????? Excuse me ???????
I shoukd re - think your strategy. This child dont need more trips out he sounds TIRED/ EXHAUSTED. Before addressing your COLD attitude; I should give him MORE affection, cuddles, quiet time, 10 hours sleep EVERY night. Milky puddings instead of sugary drinks. When you've done this The next step is THERAPY for yourself as to why you're so COLD towards your son.

My 11yo is similar in terms of killing the mood on any activity outside the home. I took him to florida and he sulked around theme parks asking to go back to the hotel. A weekend in london was ruined by him refusing to use the tube. It's really demoralising. He's a lovely kid, he just seems to want to be at home all the time. I think it stems from fear and anxiety, which is sad and I don't really know how to help him overcome this.

I have two thoughts, both from my own childhood (my son is not quite 4 months old, so I don’t have a ton of parenting wisdom yet 😅):

1. With regards to outings - are you (or your husband/wife/partner) super stressy when getting out of the house? My own mother used to absolutely lose her shit while getting ready for a day out and she and my father often argued, so I started to dread them. She always calmed down once we were on the way, but there was often a bit of tension for a while afterwards and some kids are more sensitive to that than others.

2. With regards to time at home - my mother had a strict “no playing pretend” policy. She was happy to read, play board games or cards, do arts and crafts, etc., but she did not get involved in pretend play. Maybe try telling your son you’re happy to play with him if he wants to play Monopoly/Mario Kart/build with Legos/color, but if he wants to play pretend then he needs to play with his brother instead? I do appreciate that three years is probably the hardest age gap (I have siblings who are 13 months, 3 years, and 10 years younger than me!) but playing with other kids rather than just bossing around adults is a valuable skill to have!