Consequences for 6 year old who ruins every trip out

[20Twenty6]

What sort of consequences do you impose for a child who repeatedly ruins trips out? 6 year old DS. Used to be a pleasure to take out but the last 6-12 months just spends the whole time whinging loudly about every tiny thing, generally being obstructive and whining to go home every 2 minutes. I get that he’s tired, I get that school is hard, I get he prefers toys and TV (which we strictly limit as he’d watch all day otherwise) but we really don’t ask too much. We drove today to a wetland centre, first time out since the 23rd. Great play area, loads of stuff on for kids, got him a hot chocolate from the cafe, but still he was so so negative. We’ve tried to be really understanding and kind previously but I’m just totally fed up of his entitlement to be honest and feel we need to get tougher.

We took ours out for a long walk on Christmas eve to get rid of some energy. No treats, just walking and looking at Christmas Dec's. It calmed dc down though. I think they can get over stimulated this time of year.

I have 2 dc. One NT one ND.

ND was a battle from birth. The amount and extent of behaviours are clear to those of us who live with it.

My DS can be like this. Undiagnosed at the moment.

Ive tried everything and I'm at the point now where I'm pretty blunt with him.

tell him some rules in the car on the way;
be good, kind hands, no screaming etc
the consequence he thinks will happen is that he'll he banned from wherever we're going.

any slightest moan when we're out, 'not today X' and redirect to something else.

not sure if this is the right way, but it works for us.

regarding self play, I do play with him but of course there's times I need to get stuff done, I set him up with something and say right I'm just going to quickly to do this, I check in every couple of minutes, abit tedious but keeps him engaged in his play if I ask questions about what he's doing

I’m NT and I went through a phase as a child of being very negative, whiney and criticising everything. It was just a phase though, and I don’t know why I did it but I did grow out of it.

Some children are definitely more compliant, than others, OP. After I’d written my post I saw you’d given more detail about your DS, saying he’s intense and has trouble sleeping, etc. Now whether that’s because he has ADHD or similar or whether it’s just in his nature, the answer is the same (but adapted as necessary if it turns out he has ADHD or whatever). Some children are just easier than others. Not being ‘easy’ doesn’t mean he has additional needs - he might, he might not.

Anyway, in the example you’ve mentioned where you’ve told him to give you 15 minutes before you play with him, firstly make sure you’re telling him not asking. Then if he starts playing up and causing trouble, go over to him, bend down to his level, gently hold his arms, look him in the eyes and say “No! I’ve told you I’ll play with you in 15 minutes after I’ve done X. You’re making X take longer because I’ve had to stop to come and tell you off. You need to sit down/go to your room and do Y while you’re waiting for me. If you continue to hurt [sibling], I won’t play with you at all, do you understand?”

I would hold my child upside down, tickle him to death and threaten to feed him spinach if he continued doing my head in. Then I'd make him say 10 nice things about me - "Mummy, you're lovely, Mummy, you're the best" - under threat of his younger sister being bought a treat and him not. Then I'd challenge them both to find the biggest stick and run away shouting "I'm going to win, I'm going to win!" At a stretch, I'd lie down on the ground yelling "I'm going to shout and scream and have a tantrum and completely ruin your afternoon just because I CAN!!!"

That would work with my older DC, but we're all a bit odd tbh.

The problem we have though is he just doesn’t seem to know how to play. And aside from going to a wetland place for 3 hours today (which clearly I’ve been told was a terrible idea!) we honestly do spend a lot of time at home. He just doesn’t seem to be able to do creative play, it’s sad but it’s almost like he doesn’t have an imagination. He’s never played with anything like action figures or anything like that - the odd occasions he is engaged it’s when he’s building a Lego models following instructions. The only thing we get close to independent play is when we reenact things that have happened to him in school 🤷🏻‍♀️ he’s literally never just played in his room - he would just leave and come and find us and talk at us or request we join him, which actually means us having the ideas for him. Sending him away really distresses him. We do send him away because we are trying to get him to be independent…but it doesn’t seem to be having any long term impact and changing behaviour.

Easier said than done but it sounds like you need to find a hobby outside of the home that he'll really enjoy - gymnastics/climbing wall?

Hi. You said a couple of things which I thought sounded interesting - especially that when you play with him at home he tells you what to do.

This shows a need for control. I wonder if he feels a lack of control in an outdoor venue.

The end result of not feeling in control is anxiety. Home is so much more predictable and controllable.

I know you mentioned asd and adhd and needing control is a key element of asd. I have a daughter, adult now, who was diagnosed with a form of autism called PDA. It is a much more social type of autism and can be missed as those with it tend to make good eye contact, seem to play ok (though actually the play is rigid and involves them in a control situation, like being a vet with a bunch of soft toys, or a teacher, or a waitress even, asking people for their orders).

It is a tricky one, as these kids don't always have the skills to manage days out without support.

Once you understand PDA it becomes easier.

It's worth investigating x

Just had a thought, (and sorry if you’ve answered this already), does he like books? If he can’t sit by himself to read what about audio books or one of those Toni things?

And does he do swimming lessons? He needs a hobby, it might be a case of trial and error to find the right one. A one to one thing like piano lessons might suit him better than a class or group.

Do you and Dh take him and his sibling out separately? I’ve found that’s actually the key, 1 to 1 time. Mine are 12 & 7 and yes, one of them will definitely whinge a lot on a whole family day out with Dh and I. It’s like one sets the other off and then Dh or I get fed up and the whole mood sinks.

So we make sure we have lots of solo days out. I’ll take dd to the cinema or out for dinner. Dh will take ds on a bike ride to have a hot chocolate or they’ll go away for a night of camping. There is less moaning when just one of them. They get more quality time just with one of us. And it’s also just easier and more enjoyable for Dh and I. We still do things as a family but I’d say it’s 50/50.

Sending him away makes him upset, so stop doing that. (Many kids would be upset to be explicitly sent away at this age).
He doesn't enjoy imaginative play, so stop trying to encourage that.
He likes following instructions, so do more of that.
He likes being near you and talking to you, so do more of that.

You're right getting out is generally healthy. Work out if he's happier with novelty venues or repeat visits. Most kids like familiar places tbh.

Plus investigate the ND angle, don't wait for school to lead on this.

It feels like you need to decide in your heart how you want to approach this - you've not taken much on board during the thread which is perhaps because you're conflicted about the whole situation.

Just to add that this: Sending him away really distresses him. We do send him away because we are trying to get him to be independent… makes no sense - you will be increasing his anxiety by repeatedly making him distressed, which will make him less able to be independent. So stop sending him away - it isn't working as you say yourself: it doesn’t seem to be having any long term impact and changing behaviour

I’m sorry if it comes across that way. There has been a lot of very conflicting advice, including some that has been quite derogatory and aggressive. I will take time to process it all though when I have a bit more strength.

Whinging doesn't happen with my kids because I give them jobs to do if they start. 😆 If the choice is between Stop complaining or scrub the oven, we don't get much moaning. Just stop tolerating it.

He sounds very much like my son, who is likely ADHD. He’s 12yo now, so here are a few strategies that I’ve found useful.

1. He has a strong sense of fairness so I use that. For example, I’ll lay the week ahead out, go through what we are doing each day and discuss who it benefits. Then if he has any complaints I’ll point out that I’ve given up my time X times to do something he enjoys, therefore he is to come to his grandmother’s on Sunday and not whinge about it.
2. When younger, Junior park run on Sunday mornings was always good to burn off excess physical energy, with the added bonus of improving his mood for the rest of the day.
3. Sports - you might need to start with more individual ones and move onto team sports. Running club, golf, swimming, cycling and anything that requires short bursts of attention rather than longer spells.
4. Screen time - games like Minecraft that he can go on and off. Don’t involve yourself other than showing him what to do at the beginning - even better if you can get an older cousin to show him. If he enjoys it, screen time is to be earned. ‘You can go on Minecraft when you get home, providing you do XY and Z whilst we’re out’.
5. Recognise when he’s overwhelmed or burnt out. You need to work out what helps with this. For my son it’s exercise followed by allowing him to be in his room scrolling on his phone for a while (appreciate your ds is too young for that). When he’s feeling like this, any organised activity is a no, as he needs to have time when he doesn’t have to think about anything.
6. Not playing with toys - I didn’t ever manage to solve this, but I taught him to play cards, dominoes, darts, draughts, chess etc and he will focus on these. I bought him a swing ball and a trampoline for the garden and he’d independently do that for a while.

He also has to understand that sometimes things are none negotiable. I talk a lot about things that I have to do that I’d rather not do. I also pick my battles and try to pre warn as much as I can.

Consequences - why? He is allowed to have and express an opinion surely?
I think almost any 6yo child would prefer to i spend boxing day at home in the warm playing with their new toys, watching tv and eating chocolate than trudging round a wetland centre tbh, so i can understand his grumpiness. Doesn't mean you shouldn't go of course, you are in charge, but dont expect him to want it!

i would start by not comparing - and even when you see children being little angels you don’t know that half an hour earlier or later they weren’t horrors.
I would consider ND but that doesn’t have to be an frightening prospect.
You might want to: keep a diary (so you can spot what does work)
investigate strategies parents of ND kids use - it won’t do anyone any harm, and might just work

I had one child who had to be out if the house by 9 or would be a nightmare. But a walk or the local play park could be enough. Also be aware of noise, lights, and other things which might over stimulate. And Orange juice was a stimulant to one of my children.
Divide and conquer can help with children with different needs.
And some children do just go through a phase of whinging - one of mine always whinged on walks - that child is now a countryside ranger 🤷‍♀️

Okay. I hear what you're saying about independent/imaginative play and him being more likely to enjoy doing Lego with instructions.

I totally see why you'd expect him to be able to manage independent imaginative play at the age of 6, but it sounds like that's not his thing. So, might there be changes you guys could make so you can set it up so he's more likely to have a good time?

I'm thinking:

If he enjoys imaginative play when you are with him, you could set up some story boards/prompts?

Or look at things that can be built and rebuilt creatively but don't necessarily require stories? I'm thinking of brio railway but that's obviously aimed at younger children (though I found they enjoyed it for ages actually).

Or maybe there are custom Lego instructions to make different things out of the same kits?

Or maybe he would enjoy reading books?

Or he might like listening to audiobooks while he's out in the garden learning to pogo stick/roller skate/scoot/whatever. You can get lots of free audiobooks from your library, usually via either the Libby app or the Borrowbox app.

My parents set me off on various learning curves - some easier in the summer but e.g. I decided I was going to learn to skip, so I practiced til I could skip a thousand times over the rope without tripping up. Presumably one could do the same thing with learning to juggle or basically any number of things like that. So I am thinking of things that don't have a winner or a loser, are mainly an individual activity (not too much co-operation required) etc. I had a trapeze on a climbing frame and loved practicing summersaults etc.

I would also be considering options for craft projects so e.g. could you set him off with some ideas and then he does the making? Or he might get on better if the project has a purpose so e.g. making birthday cards or similar? Could even use stickers and things if he's not a fan of drawing.

You might already have tried all this stuff but I am just trying to think of options that might be different from what you're already trying.

Not being able to do creative play is a huge flag for asd. I mentioned PDA earlier - now I just want to talk about standard asd. My other daughter has never been able to play and she has an asd diagnosis.

I suggest you speak to your GP and find out how to get your son referred for assessment.

Tbh, in my experience, school only tend to notice anything with children who are causing them problems or falling way behind academically. Some children with asd sail right under the radar.

I think a bit of looking from his point of view is needed. If he doesn't like imaginative play, let him do what he does like. If he doesn't like going out, he is going to moan. Are there things he will do, such as a local park? Climbing is mentioned up thread and potentially a great idea. Get him assessed for autism and adhd. Pda has been mentioned, but none of the pda kids I know can manage school, so I would think that's less likely.

For home activities, you can get lots of things such as sensory spinning seats, yoga balls, balance board or cushion, indoor trampolines and door swings. If you have a garden, then outdoor trampoline and swing can be bigger.

Yeah school are shit with asd if they are academic and mask

My daughter has pda and she managed school - there is a subset of pda kids who basically keep their heads down at school as a way to avoid demands. My daughter never actually did any work, but she was incredibly polite and bubbly, and didn't cause the staff any problems, so she was allowed to keep going.

But meanwhile they found her strange and noticed her odd social skills, but they persisted in seeing her as "fine".

It's a complicated one with this subset of pda kids. Their difficulties are harder to spot and understand.

Another one for the ignore camp. He is young, fit and healthy. It’s wonderful for his physical, mental and general health to be outside. Much healthier than being inside at home.
Ignore the moaning. You could play a fun quiz like how many different birds, colors, cars etc can you spot.
I used to brine mine with smarties on hikes / walk to that tree and you can have a smarties. At the end of the walk there would be a playground often - magically the moaning would stop and complaints of tiredness and the DC would sprint towards it.
Nice treats like hot chocolate are only for good non moaning behavior. I would work on the basis of 3 warnings before no hot chocolate. But I would use the warnings when the moaning had really got on my nerves. Mine also used to like having the map and planning/helping to plan a route.
But you are the parents you get to choose the family activities. That’s what parents do. Apart from for special occasions (eg birthday) when the child can chose from a shortlist or something they have asked for eg legoland.

Agree. I’d just go for simpler/quicker trips to local park or places I know they like. Mine never really liked big trips out. Bonkers imho but it’s who they are. Son loves football though so we did a lot of that!