Consequences for 6 year old who ruins every trip out

[20Twenty6]

What sort of consequences do you impose for a child who repeatedly ruins trips out? 6 year old DS. Used to be a pleasure to take out but the last 6-12 months just spends the whole time whinging loudly about every tiny thing, generally being obstructive and whining to go home every 2 minutes. I get that he’s tired, I get that school is hard, I get he prefers toys and TV (which we strictly limit as he’d watch all day otherwise) but we really don’t ask too much. We drove today to a wetland centre, first time out since the 23rd. Great play area, loads of stuff on for kids, got him a hot chocolate from the cafe, but still he was so so negative. We’ve tried to be really understanding and kind previously but I’m just totally fed up of his entitlement to be honest and feel we need to get tougher.

I used to tell mine we weren’t going home until everyone had had fun. They wanted to
ne at home with the tv or screens. After a bit of a moan and me repeating that we’re not going home until everyone had fun, they’d relax into it and enjoy themselves.

@20Twenty6 I have a now 15 yr old who was very similar as a younger child. Things that helped...

• Audio books. He would sit down colouring/jigsaws/fossick with Lego etc if he had an audio book on at the same time. Without the audio book he couldn't stay focused on the activity. This was a game changer for us.

• Toys that he "got" the purpose of - marble run, anything cause and effect, trays of lentils with small toy diggers to move them round with, kinetic sand were all popular. Imaginary play didn't ever happen for DS but he did enjoy other sorts of play (and again, usually while listening to an audio book!)

• Sensory equipment at home. Trampoline for bouncing. Peanut ball for rolling on. Body sock for thrashing round in while watching TV. Doorway swing/yoga hammock for swinging. Make them all available.

* Lots of outings to places where there were no people so he could go WILD. Deserted beaches in the rain so he could literally throw rocks around, woods walks where he could whack things with a huge stick, that sort of thing. Outlets for the energy he genuinely needed to expend - he wasn't good in controlled environments where he had to keep a lid on his impulses!

• Daily magnesium supplement (if he won't take it, try Epsom salts in the bath instead)

We used to get this, and then through COVID and limiting going out DS became pathologically anxious about going out.
We now have an expectation that we go out (almost) every day with everyone getting a choice of outing every so often (he's 13 now but the peak of anxiety was aged 9, he is ND though).
We find we have to keep on top of it (we can't have a week of holidays with no outings for example), and we just ignore any "I'm not going it's boring" and remind him that expectations are what gets you screen time (or other preferred activity).

What have you tried to manage the behaviour so far?

With my DS (younger but prone to getting stuck in irritating behavioural habits) you have to really name the issue explicitly with him.

He had got obsessed with saying he wanted stuff for his birthday (basically every single vehicle we saw outside, every time we went outside and anything he saw out of the window too.) If you didn't reply right away, he said it again louder and louder.

It had been going on for six months and nothing had shifted it. I had tried validating and granting through play/imagination. I had tried totally ignoring. I had tried a stock response and subject change. A few times I had got irritated and told him to can it. None of these things reduced the irritating "I want that truck for my birthday!" refrain hundreds of times a week.

What actually sorted it was very explicitly saying that I found that conversation boring and I wasn't going to talk about it any more. And repeating that after any more than one or two utterances and then immediately changing the conversation topic.

Honestly, the behaviour stopped almost totally within a week.

It took a lot for us to realise dd was AS, she would literally roll over her furniture in front of her door if we do much as had a disagreement on teabag types. Etc.

I would consider if he’s ND, I have an academically very capable ND child and they just want to chill and watch and a bit of playing. We haven’t had any big days out.
When we do have days out the first time we visit there’s moaning complaining general unhappiness to the point it ruins it for the rest of us. Subsequent visits are usually fine as they know what to expect. It’s one of the ways my DCs ND shows. Have you done repeat visits to places?

My DS was like this around 5-6 years old. Still not sure why. He's completely changed again now (7) and is a delight to take out again.

We're not even attempting any trips out until after the weekend. The kids are tired and massively stimulated after weeks of Christmas in school and then straight into it. After two days of family get togethers we are planning lie ins and down time.

Should add they are all diagnosed or under assessment for ASD/ADD/PDA. Parenting strategies often need to be totally different to "normal".

I posted upthread about my DC1 but believe me, you don’t sound like a terrible parent and going out for fresh air was perfectly reasonable.

Don’t be terrified of a possible ND diagnosis. It has really helped us understand our DC1 - who was, quite frankly, a nightmare at 6. At 10, he is much calmer, better regulated, and his needs are better understood (and he’s better able to articulate them).

I would say that it doesn’t surprise me at all if school haven’t spotted everything. Our experience is that they notice disruptive children and those who are very, very behind. They didn’t notice DC1 at all. And were uninterested in how different his behaviour was at home (ie not masking). But he was formally diagnosed at 8.

One thing that helped us was to observe very closely when we were having issues and what had happened before. This helped to identify flashpoints like transitions/unstructured time and then we could start to work out how to approach those differently. It sounds like you’re already picking up on things here. We did a lot of divide and rule at that stage, with one parent taking one child (we have a DC2). It was bloody knackering.

I hope tomorrow is a better day for you.

What are schools meant to do? If a child is masking effectively and doing well academically - what are the teachers meant to do? They’re teachers not educational psychologists.

Hello @20Twenty6 are you me??? We are exactly the same. 5 going on 6 year old can be very emotional and moaning and it does get you down as you feel like they moan about everything. We also have a 3 year old. We try very hard to ignore or ‘gently tease’ like oh no DS1 no smiling remember you’re not having fun etc and he often will laugh with it too and it sort of cajoles him out of it. But mostly we ignore and then when he does show interest etc engage back with him. We also try indoctrinating him but consistently repeating ‘we’re having a lovely time’ 😂 But I feel you on so many levels.

im putting down to the hard transition to Y1. I feel like school is really full on. No more ‘play’. My DS doesn’t even get afternoon playtime which I think is a contributing factor. He does two clubs a week too which he does enjoy but will moan about them but actually likes it when he’s there so we keep going.

The point is that you can't discount asd just because school has no concerns. OP said school isn't concerned and some of us are pointing out that with an academically able, quiet, well behaved child, school probably won't notice.

But if you go to them with say a CAMHS diagnosis of asd and details of how your child is masking, there may be things school can do.

For example, social skills support at break time. Now it's clear your child plays by themselves because they can't make friends, not because they prefer it, there will possibly be groups for that. They might be given noise cancelling head phones. Stuff like that.

My daughter's year 6 teacher didn't believe her asd diagnosis! Luckily I was able to speak to to the head about it and she got support from that way.

My child is autistic and he is like this. Now he is a little older, I’ve learned that I really need to involve him in the decision making about where we go, the expectations of the trip, and to be prepared to keep outings short. Sometimes he will love where we go, sometimes he will last an hour. We have had to adjust our own expectations to accommodate.

Train the teachers properly.

The perfectionist quiet girl with anxiety who won’t answer questions is probably ASD. Even if she has friends and appears happy.

Anxiety is the thing to look for.

Mine is older but still needs several days downtime at the start of any holidays/ after some days out. Your might be like this too.

@20Twenty6 I agree with this helpful post above. Your son may be ND but even if he’s not, it sounds like he would benefit hugely by being involved in a regular, structured physical activity. Personally I would recommend gymnastics at this age because it’s a great balance of physicality and discipline. And I think team sports can be quite tricky to navigate with ND.

also in my experience schools are dreadful at identifying ND in smart kids. So don’t assume they will spot anything. See how things go but maybe look up some advice on how to parent an AuDHD kid - it won’t do him any harm and may help.

Sometimes they need a distraction. My DS8 (adhd and ASD) can be like that sometimes. But then I set him a task to do eg counting something as we go round. Or I took for him a walk yesterday just to get out the house, so I said he could take his remote control car and his grandpa kept making tunnels from his legs for DS to drive under. Just little things like that really help. He then “forgets” he’s in a mood and enjoys the time out.

I would check whether there is something going on at school . Has he got friends? Does he find work easy?I think this book is a must for every parent’ how to talk so children will listen and listen so children will talk’.

I don’t like ‘days out’ much either. When my parents first got a car (mid 1950s!) I remember the phase when they felt now they could, we OUGHT to go on Sunday trips. Didn’t last long, thank goodness. I much preferred being at home with my books.

Finally, someone has spotted the correlation. I hoped someone would x

Quick thought. Check iron levels if you can, just to be sure all is ok.DD was an absolute screen addict , long before phones and iPads. Don’t give in.
I’m in the ‘stop whining’ camp myself. He wants his own way, he can’t have it all of the time.

I’d keep doing it and add a bit of bribery. Bringing a friend can also help.

Offer him a choice of two places to go and he picks if it is the weekend and you want a whole day out.

My children would be taken on a walk every day , park , on scooter or bike and then help with small jobs around the house and garden / baking etc , we would do puzzles, reading or a board game and then a fixed amount of TV , after dinner free play , bath and story.

I think alot of parents think that children need a full day out , which over stimulates them and is too full on for a young child.

Routine is important, fresh air , going out in the rain , swimming , short managable activities as attention span is short

you do well in going out and about, lack of exercise is bad for kids on every level, so even if he moans think you do it for his health. Loads of kids are lazy and they would rather spend the day in front of a screen. If you give in, they will likely become sedentary/lazy adults. I know several who spent their childhood in front of a screen and now in adulthood they don’t have other hobbies/sports etc. keep on teaching them good healthy habits