Mortified, sensitive issue. Not sure what to do!

[louisaeight]

So my son only started school in September and a little boy who he went to the childminders with between 18 months and 2 years is in his class. This was great news when we found out as the boys were super close and have seen each other a handful of times since the childminder days for birthday parties and a few play dates. Also in their class is this boys other friend from his more recent childminder, which has been a bit confusing for my son as his friend wants to play with this friend more.

It seems that jealousy may have got the better of him and our son has been telling this boy that he ‘has to sit with him at lunch’ (this isn’t confirmed but is what the other mum is saying) My son tends to be more passive and sensitive, even though he’s a big personality and isn’t shy about sharing his views but it’s still possible that he did this.

Anyway, the boys parents (one from original childminders) have increasingly been very strange with us at pick up and drop off and we started to sense something was wrong when our son was saying that this boys mum has said to her son that they can’t be friends with each other anymore. Naturally this has been causing a lot of confusion and upset with my son. My son is also very upfront and has outright called his friends mum out on this which she has awkwardly denied twice whilst looking at the floor and not making eye contact with us.

It happened again yesterday, so I decided to drop her a message in the evening and see what’s going on as enough was enough.

This is where it gets very tricky. She replied to my message and told me that her son apparently told a teacher at school that his ‘mum kicked him and sent him to bed with no dinner’. Due to the level of this allegation social services were involved. When his parents quizzed him about why he had said this as it seems to be not true, he said on numerous occasions that our son had got him to tell this teacher.

Now this stunned me and is very out of character for our son, however, we’ve started to have a few conversations with him to gently try and find the truth, among wider more general conversations about the matter. He’s said he knows the teacher that his friend had told and was very focused on how upset he is that he doesn’t want to sit with him at lunch and be his friend. We also asked if like his friends mum (among taking about other kids mums) and he said no. I’m starting to see that maybe he could have been involved in this after all to some degree but we are gently bringing it up rather than forcing it so may take some time.

We had parents evening a few weeks ago and I mentioned that my son was getting upset about not being able to play with him and about the mum saying via her son she didn’t want them to play to together, did the teacher know anything about this? She said no. But by the sounds of this mums text reply, is that they have spilt them up in class. I’ll next to investigate this side of things as I feel that the school should have told me.

Now I don’t know what way everything happened or the real truth at this stage, but I feel like my child is being punished indirectly from that mum about something he supposedly did but there is no evidence for, what’s worse is the school haven’t involved us in this at all, we have no idea when this happened and the mum is no longer engaging with us. Even though it’s been 15 hours so she could still reply, hopefully.

when my husband and i replied to her text, we did this is an 8 min voicenote saying that we are absolutely mortified to hear this and that we’d wish she’s reached out before. We asked her a few questions to try and get the full picture of the story to get to the bottom of it all, but also said we’d like to speak to our son but we also don’t want to make it worse as they are in such close proximity to each other, but she hasn’t replied.

Im thinking I just contact the school directly but also our children are 4 years old and there is obviously complexities with friendships here. I’m aware that lying is a normal development thing for 4 - 6 year olds and it’s very important to us that our son understands that lying is not ok. But we also don’t want to blame him for something that he may not have done it, so need him to admit it first.

Arrgh! Help! I’m so cross with the while situation and I feel completely powerless!

OMG - indeed!

Op Please leave this family alone - in fact unless this is the only primary in a large area (unlikely) I'd put money on them moving schools to escape this situation.

Either your son did what he has been accused of and the boys should no longer be friends.

OR your son is entirely innocent and the other boy is lying and the boys should no longer be friends.

Whichever it is - you don’t get to decide.

As for allowing a 4 yo upbraid another adult - that’s appalling behaviour on your part and I’d have given both you and your DS short shrift.

An 8 minute voice note is unhinged, I’d be blocking you everywhere and updating the school.

Read the signs and tell your son to find someone else to sit with. 8 min voice note is wild.

I'm gobsmacked. If this is true then you need to stop pussyfooting around your son and teach him not to lie and not to be rude!

This is crazy. Leave stuff in school and speak to the teacher. Don’t speak to parents about it outside of school.

All this drama for a 4yr old friendship? You know they change friends every 2 weeks

The only thing you should be mortified about is your and your husbands behaviour and also your child’s behaviour!!! NONE of this is acceptable!!!! You are behaving completely batshit!

What have i just read?!! What the duck. You sound completely out of control of yourself and your son and are way too intrusive. And a 4 year old calling out an adult? Do you mean that your son was extremely rude to another parent? I hope you told him that was not ok. And an 8 minute voice note? Ffs you will have the parents calling the police about harassment before long. Just chill the fuck out and tell your son to find new friends.

8 minute voice note??!!! 😂

Just presenting a slightly different possibility here.

There is a chance, with any family, however nice seeming, that there is abuse or neglect going on at home. I think that the statistics are something like one in ten, so 2-3 children in your child’s class wouldn’t be unlikely.

In order for a teacher to refer on to social services, they must have had a reasonable level of confidence that the allegation was plausible. And you only have the mums word that it was dismissed and not just no evidence found or support offered etc.

So, go very carefully with your son. If the other child has disclosed to your son that he has been kicked and fed no dinner, and your son has encouraged him to speak to the teacher, then your son’s instincts are spot on. And you don’t want to do anything to discourage that. Better 10 incorrect referrals put in than one correct referral missed.

To me, 4 seems very very young to have the wider understanding necessary to imagine that making something like that up to a teacher could be a revenge/prank/fun - I’d say that’s more 7/8 year old level.

In your position I would ask your son why he doesn’t like the other mum, and leave some space for him to talk.

What does it mean for a 4 year old to "call out" someone else's mum?

I hope you have taken on board that an 8 minute voice note is bonkers.

You need to back way off.

Gently encourage other friendships and make sure your child knows that other kids have agency over who they play with.

If you didn’t want your child to play with someone with you be persuaded by such intense and involved parents?

They don’t want their child playing with yours, there is nothing you can do about it, making long voice notes just tells them that they are right wanting to keep away from your family as you are coming across extremely needy.
Tell your child to keep away and keep away yourselves.

This!

Does nobody come back to their threads these days?

I don’t really get this. It’s obvious you care a lot about your son but I just think when they are 4 or 5 just go with the flow and don’t get deeply involved , if he is complaining this boy doesn’t want to sit with him tell him to play with someone else. I don’t think friendships are that deep at that age , they go through phases of playing with each other and rowing , best not to involve yourself too much. My son is the same age and goes through phases of hanging around with various boys in the class and having rows with them, so I hear when I ask him about his day.

Gosh, leave this poor woman alone and definitely stop your 4 year old being rude to her!

These are minor fallings out between tiny children, chill out.
Sounds like your son was being a bit possessive over the other little boy and he didn't like it, now you and your husband are being super intense with the mum.

Just invite some other kids over for playdates and encourage your son to play with other children at school.

My son is 4 & has just joined school so I understand the developmental intellect we are talking about.

We are talking about a child who over two years ago your so knew for only six months. Its to be expected that this child has moved on.

If this was my son, I’d teach him that people have lots of different friends and he needs to find someone else.

I think as a parent you need to work through this with him and explain that he just needs to find some other friends. Perhaps take him to some activities where he has the opportunity to make with other friends.

This little boy does not want to be friends with your son, who hasn’t known for two years, and that is entirely reasonable. I think it’s your job to sort out your own child.

Also, if someone’s child had got me reported to social services, I must certainly wouldn’t want them near my son anymore either. She probably could’ve done it better , but maybe she’s just upset and embarrassed and was trying to avoid a confrontation.

Unclench 😀

Totally agree!

An 8 minute voice note?? Gee Whizz!!

It’s kids, it’s 4 year olds, it’s “starting school”… mine used to say the most bizarre things when he started school… I took very little notice as 99.9% was garbage!

Your DS is mixing with not only the kids he knows, but other ones too, who may be different to his little group. They’re all so young, I wouldn’t make too much of it to be honest.
No doubt, the school will be faffing around with Christmas, and Nativities before long, so it may all be forgotten.

The thing is either. A. Your son did encourage to say this or B. Her son did it and when he got in trouble he tried to pass the buck

But the truth is either way, I dont think theres a friendship to salvage here. Theyre 4, his old friend has a new friend and doesnt like DS wanting his exclusive attention. You now have an issue with friends mum. Tbh id just encourage DS to make some new friends.

You asked she said, friend accused her of violence, shes faced SS and her DC is saying it was your DS who encouraged him. Whether its true or not I imagine shes just glad she didnt end up in a worse position. And probably thinks its safer for her family to keep the boys separated.

I think an 8min voicenote is wild! I cant imagining responding to that.

Goodness! Do you normally make a big drama out of everything? Children at that age are just learning about friendships and often fall in and out of them weekly.

I know this is a side-issue, but it would be very unusual for a four-year-old to know that a child telling a teacher their mum had kicked them and sent them to bed without dinner was a way of causing trouble for the mother. Might your son ever have heard you talking about anything like that, perhaps about another family? If so, I’m afraid it might be true that he told the friend to say this.

Whether or not it’s justified, though, your son needs to accept that he can’t play with the other boy for now. Encourage him to make new friends.

At this age, they tend to change friendships fairly frequently.It is best not to overthink it. I would suggest to your son that he plays with some of the others and leave this poor family alone.