DD (16) physically retaliated in a fight with DS (6). I don’t know what to do.

[CandidPearlWasp]

Hi everyone. I’m having a very tough time with my children and hoping for some advice.

My DD is 16, and my son (her half brother) is 6. DD splits her time 50/50 between our house and my ex husband’s house.

Recently my son has been having behavioural challenges. Our physician suspects he has ODD and ADHD, and we are awaiting therapy and services for him. In the meantime, he has explosive and sometimes violent meltdowns and everyday tasks are a battle when he’s not getting his way. He has hit, punched, pulled hair, bit, etc. all of us and it’s been awful, but we can usually deescalate the situation, but since he’s a tall boy and weighs 65lbs it does hurt.

Two weeks ago my DD was in her bedroom watching something on her iPad, which her father bought for her. We do not have one for my son, so he’s been very intrigued by it and she’s let him use it before. This time, he went in and said he wanted to play on it. She said no. He started to have a verbal meltdown and she said “I said no, get out of my room please”. This escalated into him climbing onto her bed, hitting her in the face and pulling her hair. She then grabbed him by the hair, got off the bed by standing up while holding his hair and dragged him out of her room and across the hall by the hair. He was screaming in pain and fear and she threw him into his room, said “that doesn’t feel good, does it?” and slammed the door.

I was outside as this happened and alerted by the nanny cam we have downstairs. I rushed in and ran into my 6 year old’s room to calm him down, as he was wailing. My 16 year old came in and got angry with me saying it’s all always about him, even though he was “a little psycho who attacked her”. I told her that I understood it’s not okay he attacked her, but he’s a small child and what she did wasn’t okay. She left for her father’s that night and hasn’t been back, is barely speaking to me and won’t speak to or apologize to her brother. She’s made it clear to me she thinks she did nothing wrong.

I’m at a loss - about how to handle my son, how to reconnect with my daughter and how to move forward as a family.

It's potential SEN at this point it could just be piss poor parenting inconsistent boundaries and a child used to using his fists if he doesn't get his own way my ds went through it he does have SEN but he was coming home from his dad's and smashing my house up demanding his father so I called his dad packed a bag for him and took him to his dad's car his dad said he wasn't having him live with him and to go back into my house and behave his dad had been poisoning him into believing I was stopping them from seeing each other more often and preventing access being told that wasn't going to happen was an emotional smack in the face but a necessary one because honestly I would have let his dad take him if that's what made him happy I just knew he didn't want him he just wanted to hurt me ds needed some counselling to get through it all but he understands things better now

He was probably screaming because he was furious that he was in the FO stage of FAFO. Having your hair pulled really hurts, as DD well knows, and now so does DS. At least he was in motion and had the option to keep up rather than DD who was sat down.

I would put money on him not being thrown but instead roughly shoved into his room. I'm an adult and I struggle to lift DD who is less than 40lbs, let alone throw her, shotput style, across a room.

Asl for thread to be moved to sen board. Odd is very hard to deal with and your just going to get load people saying
That will teach him
He wont do it again
When infact he will. You need coping strategies. Lerner safe restraining. Get a lock for dd room

@CandidPearlWasp I really recommend reading ot listening to Dr Beckys Good Inside book. My son is 4 and has violent tantrums and is responding very well to the strategies I have implemented from this book.

@LeanIntoChaos I am a little confused by the "good for her, bet he won't attack her again" responses. Do you all think that corporal punishment is an effective way of parenting children (+/- potential disabilities). Because that is what it seems to be suggesting.

I'll clear up the confusion- DD is not his parent and this was not parenting. If parenting had been happening, it would not have happened.

So what do you suggest?
'Well dd, even though you're being stuck, bitten, hair pulled by your brother, it's mean and inappropriate for you to defend yourself or retaliate'?

Where does it say he was carried? I mean the description isn’t much to go on. The OP wasn’t even there herself. But there is no mention of him being physically carried.

i think people equating sibling fighting to fighting someone outside the home need to just step back a second.

Fighting amongst siblings is normal to a point, its part of growing up, learning boundaries...etc.

The OP is at fault here for allowing her sons meltdown to escalate to the point her 16yo DD was physically attacked by her brother.

The 16yo had every right to defend herself, the age gap/size difference means she was in the wrong for dragging him by his hair, but protecting herself and removing him from her space and depositing him in his own was perfectly reasonable.

I wonder if the OP asked her daughter if she was ok after being assaulted by her brother and punched in the face by him, or just went straight to comforting the child who'd just tried to attack his sister and learned the hard way that actions have consequences?

The reality is that she was entitled to defend herself and remove DS from her room but she went too far.

Realistically, she needs a lock and to be taught safer ways of bundling him out of her room. So if he kicks off, she can get him out without excessive force, lock the door and then ignore him.

Gosh, this thread would be so different if it was a 16 year old boy and a 6 year old girl.

I'm alarmed at how many people think a 16 year old would have no capacity to control themselves if provoked by a much smaller, weaker child. Do you know how many 16 year olds work in nurseries?!

Well yes, but surely the interpretation is that kids will learn not to hit by being hit?
I disagree with that. Therefore, I disagree with the "good for her, bet he won't do it again" because if that was the case, physical chastisement would work?

I feel for the daughter here and I also think it's 100% understandable and I don't think she should be apologising, but I dislike the posts suggesting that she might have somehow had a positive impact on his behaviour.

Good for her. And I’m sure she’s rightly waiting on an apology from both you, and your son.

Good on her, regardless of possible adhd diagnosis she can’t be his punchbag.

@NellieElephantine - self defence is meant to be “reasonable” and she is meant to understand that. That is a separate chat with her.

Both children need to have a safe space. The 6 year old with behaviour problems needs to be removed to a safe space every time he lashes out and left there to calm down. That is what the parents are meant to be doing. So the 16 year old needs to be able to remove herself quickly as soon as the signs are there that the 6 year old will kick off and the parents need to step in immediately when it happens. So by all means, get her a whistle whatever and definitely let her have a lock for her room.

If a 16 year old works at a nursery they have to be supervised by an adult at all times

Good for her, she did the right thing! Why does this little brat get to physically hurt anyone and get away with it. It will be interesting to see if he trys it on with her again. I suspect probably not.

I have an ASD child and think your son was the one in the wrong. He should’ve apologised to DD, but two weeks later is pretty pointless. It should have been as soon as he’d calmed down.

I dont blame her at all. It doesn't matter what he is diagnosed with he needs to learn thats not ok. Your way clearly isn't helping..I wouldn't be surprised if she chooses not to come back from her dads

I think a 16yo boy would be entitled to throw (figuratively not literally) a little sister who was being violent out of his room, i.e. push her out and shut the door on her. I have an older boy and younger girl and don't have any issues with my older one defending himself when they're rough-housing even if occasionally it ends in tears.

Op??? Still around??

Any comment on 200+ posts??

Or are we not staying what you want to hear?

Your son demanded your daughter allow him to use her iPad. She calmly and politely told him No. Your son then climbed on your daughter and started to pull her hair and hurt her. Your daughter did to your son, exactly what he did to her. I completely understand that life is difficult, particularly with a probable SEN diagnosis and with the ODD. Your daughter is 16, she's not an adult and she clearly hit her breaking point - we all have it. She doesn't have the maturity or skills to navigate your son's behaviour. You immediately comforted your son who was crying and told your daughter off for hurting him. I appreciate you told her that his behaviour wasn't acceptable either. All your daughter saw is your son hurting her, and you being more worried about him being hurt than the effect his behaviour is having on her. Now, that might not necessarily be the truth, but that's what your actions told her. Of course at 16, pulling her 6 year old brother's hair and dragging him out of her room by it, isn't acceptable and she shouldn't have done it. However, what consequences did your son see for hurting his sister to start with, all because she wouldn't let him have his own way??! None. He saw you comforting HIM and you telling off his sister!! Have you read up on ODD, are there strategies that help a person speak to your son? Are there different approaches you can make when asking him to do things/or not to do things? Your daughter needs to be involved with these too, so she can learn how to navigate his behaviour.

Cowering from her son probably

Op it sounds like she just had enough.
And lost it.
Being pushed to the brink we have all had our buttons pushed to the point of enough is enough.

Somethimes kids will play on it and think they can get away with it because they have sen.
But not everyone is gonna take it.
Being attacked and verbally assaulted day after day or every time you go visit.
But when its done back to said person they run off and dose the blame game and everyone is on there side.

Maybe now he wont fuck around.
I say this as my brother was the same cant get his way go in for the attack and verbal assault. Utill my sister lost her shit with him.

Hes still mums pet but he dont carry on like he use to.

But she did it literally, not figuratively.

Your poor daughter. She's most likely been pushed aside at the age of 10 while you had a shiny new baby with a new man. You allow her younger half brother to attack her regularly and take her possessions; you leap to his defence when she retaliates after being attacked once. She is a child, you have failed to keep her safe in her own home and sound incredibly indifferent to her being attacked by her brother on a regular basis. You mention your son hair-pulling, biting and punching you all. Totally unacceptable and if you allow this to happen to your daughter repeatedly, this is a safeguarding issue.