DD (16) physically retaliated in a fight with DS (6). I don’t know what to do.

[CandidPearlWasp]

Hi everyone. I’m having a very tough time with my children and hoping for some advice.

My DD is 16, and my son (her half brother) is 6. DD splits her time 50/50 between our house and my ex husband’s house.

Recently my son has been having behavioural challenges. Our physician suspects he has ODD and ADHD, and we are awaiting therapy and services for him. In the meantime, he has explosive and sometimes violent meltdowns and everyday tasks are a battle when he’s not getting his way. He has hit, punched, pulled hair, bit, etc. all of us and it’s been awful, but we can usually deescalate the situation, but since he’s a tall boy and weighs 65lbs it does hurt.

Two weeks ago my DD was in her bedroom watching something on her iPad, which her father bought for her. We do not have one for my son, so he’s been very intrigued by it and she’s let him use it before. This time, he went in and said he wanted to play on it. She said no. He started to have a verbal meltdown and she said “I said no, get out of my room please”. This escalated into him climbing onto her bed, hitting her in the face and pulling her hair. She then grabbed him by the hair, got off the bed by standing up while holding his hair and dragged him out of her room and across the hall by the hair. He was screaming in pain and fear and she threw him into his room, said “that doesn’t feel good, does it?” and slammed the door.

I was outside as this happened and alerted by the nanny cam we have downstairs. I rushed in and ran into my 6 year old’s room to calm him down, as he was wailing. My 16 year old came in and got angry with me saying it’s all always about him, even though he was “a little psycho who attacked her”. I told her that I understood it’s not okay he attacked her, but he’s a small child and what she did wasn’t okay. She left for her father’s that night and hasn’t been back, is barely speaking to me and won’t speak to or apologize to her brother. She’s made it clear to me she thinks she did nothing wrong.

I’m at a loss - about how to handle my son, how to reconnect with my daughter and how to move forward as a family.

I'd be interested in knowing whether her intervention has been effective. Does he refrain from attacking her now?

I think your main aim now should be to take the drama out of this and get things back to normal. Because the more fuss you create with either or both DC, the bigger this is going to feel. Sometimes its best to ssy little and move on.
That means a chat with DD (who may well be feeling upset about it anyway and is being defensive) where you briefly tell her what the new rules are for DS so he doesn't bother her in her room again, and what she needs to do if he attacks her elsewhere. Tell her how to safely restrain him and shout you. Do this without criticising her and making her feel worse.
Don't try to force apologies or big chats where you tell her DS can't help it. Be low key and focus on positive change for the future.
As far as DS is concerned, least said, soonest mended. This is normal sibling retaliation and as a one off in an otherwise positive and loving relationship is not going to hurt him. Then make sure he can't access her room uninvited.

I was expecting to be writing something completely different here. BUT..he went into her bedroom-her space, demanded to use her things and than physically attacked her. Yes shes 16 but you said yourself your sons attacks hurt. So sorry but she had every right to defend herself and you should not be putting any blame on her. Your son needs boundaries regardless of possible diagnosis. Maybe he will learn from this

Yes, some aspects of what she did were excessive. But I disagree that the posts would be entirely the other way if the genders were reversed.

Presumably it would be easier for a 16yo boy to bodily lift a 6yo girl out of the room, so they'd probably feel less need to resort to the hair pulling.

How many 6 year olds are in nursery? 6 years old is yr 2 at school.

I think this is FAFO for your son, its better he has a set down from his sister who has held back enough to just drag him out of her room, than to get a more serious injury from someone else. The world is full of people who won’t hold back if they get hit in the face and their hair pulled. He won’t be the only SEN child in his class by a long way.

The amount of disrespectful, vile children around has skyrocketed since smacking became unpopular. Personally I think that there is a correlation and sometimes actions do need to have immediate consequences to make a child think twice. Was the DD being harsh - yes. Was she wrong to do it - no, I don’t think so. It seemed to give him enough of a fright that he will likely be more cautious of crossing her boundaries in the future.

I'd find a martial arts class that has a sympathetic and knowledgeable sounding leader to teach her physical self-defence that will be proportionate. I'd get her some private lessons, to be honest.

I'm on team DD, in that you really DO want a 16 year old girl to feel able to defend herself against physical attack. Do I need to spell that out any clearer that the next time she is attacked it might be an attempted rape? You don't think her response was proportionate, well then teach or (preferably) get an expert to teach her what is proportionate WITHOUT squashing her instinct to defend herself. She's well within her rights to do that, especially as she tried to negotiate it calmly and reasonably first.

Well yes, but surely the interpretation is that kids will learn not to hit by being hit?

No, it means they'll learn not to hit as they'll get hit back and that's an unpleasant consequence.

Breaking it down here @CandidPearlWasp it's unreasonable for you to be waiting on an apology from your DD to your DS without your DS first acknowledging that he was in the wrong.

I completely understand that he's undergoing assessment but that doesn't mean it's an excuse for violence.

It does sound like your DD reached a point, reacted out of instinct etc. That also doesn't make it right but also means it shouldn't be her apologising in the first instance.

How you make it better is first restore your relationship with your DD on her terms. Go to her safe space and listen to her. What would she see as helping make her feel comfortable in your house.

The other is setting clear boundaries for your DS such as not going into his sisters room and also clear boundaries for supervision.

I would probably also explain that you went to the child that was crying first to understand rather then taking your DS side but you can understand the way it came across for which you apologise.

sounds like she snapped and it’s not acceptable but how has your sons behaviour been since? bet he will think twice about hitting people now. Even people with adhd know right from wrong. stop using it as an excuse. Has your son apologised for all the times he had intentionally hurt your daughter? your daughter sounds right that everything is all about your son.

I can imagine you are in a really tough situation trying to manage your son's conditions. However, he has now learned that if he assaults his sister, he will be assaulted in return. This is an important lesson, and may influence your son's actions in the future. I think this needs to be treated as an alarm system — the methods you have for managing your son in your home are not working, and making it an unsafe and unpleasant environment for your DD (and now, consequently, also your DS). He should no longer have the freedom to wander into her room, and you need to have eyes on him at all times so he doesn't become your DD's problem. Go back to the GP and explain what has happened. Get support in place and a plan so that you can assure your DD she is safe in her home.

I mostly agree with you. My answer to "why the lock on the door" is much the same as your reason for suggesting that she should stay with her father. They are both things that might help her maintain her own space and safety. But they both carry risks, yes she could feel imprisoned in her room, but equally she could experience being asked to stay with her father as rejection by her mother.

It is a very delicate situation for the OP to manage.

I don't think it's so much since smacking "went out", as much as I've seen it massively increase with the rise in gentle parenting. Children aren't butting up against boundaries and hard limits any more. I think it's no coincidence that young people are worryingly lacking in resilience and are experiencing a skyrocketing amount of anxiety.

I'm actually all for gentle parenting techniques, but I do think that many parents, schools and nurseries aren't raising children in a balanced way. If you misbehave, you should learn that there are consequences that you really want to avoid happening again in the future. That's basic cause and effect learning.

Of course, life with a child with ODD really does complicate things.

yup exactly this. I guarantee you he won't attack her again........ Don't force her to apologise or you will end up losing her full time

I'm the parent of a non-verbal DD with ASD and I'm terrified about what's been coined as "glass child" (a child who's ignored, overlooked or not prioritised because their sibling has additional needs).

I adore my DD, but my son will not be collateral damage. Absolutely not.

OP, if you're still reading, I think the only way back with your DD is a one to one conversation where you can demonstrate that you can understand her perspective here. If she's going to return to your household she will need assurance that there won't be a repeat of that situation where she's attacked in her bedroom and what will be done differently.

Personally I'm very cynical about the trend of normalising violent meltdowns in the home but I get that there isn't enough support for people like your DS. You can't just assume that other people will be happy to be punchbags even if that's what's now expected of the parents in these families. She's 16 and she reached her breaking point with the behaviour.

It's not ok but siblings fight. Why is he going in her room and demanding her stuff? You need to supervise him better.

I don't think your DD owes her brother any sort of apology at all. If anything it's the other way round - you and her brother owe HER a huge apology. Him for behaving as he did and you for your failure to adequately supervise him, so letting this happen and meaning that she feels unsafe in her home.

I have an autistic DD. She's an adult now and although she had plenty of challenges throughout her childhood and could be challenging herself, she never behaved like this. She knew it quite simply wouldn't be tolerated.

Get someone to look after DS if you possibly can and go round to apologise to your poor DD at her Dad's. Let her know what you will be doing to ensure respect and safety towards her when she is in your house, and DON'T make out that DS is some poor, special downtrodden golden child because of his possible diagnosis. Really listen to what she has to say without getting defensive about it.

I suppose DD's Dad might have something to say too. Is he also her brother's Dad?

Don't be surprised if DD now decides she wants to live at her Dad's home, at least for the time being. She is old enough to be allowed to make that decision and she just might do it for now.

She defended herself against your son.

I don’t think she should apologise, it’s not her place to stop your son from being violent towards her. It’s yours.

To put size into perspective here (because 65 pounds is pretty meaningless to most of us!) - my 12 year old son weighs about 70. He is not a “diddy dainty thing” but about average height and slender but not skinny. He looks like what he is - a child at the lower end of secondary school age.

So Op’s son is not going to be the size of the average 6 year old - more like the average 9 - 11 year old.

I agree with posters that say you have to de-escalate here. Your daughter was in an impossible position here - she either had to put up with continuing to be hurt or hurt him herself. It sounds like her main aim was to get him out of her room and away from her. She was too rough but how many times has she put up with being hit and her hair pulled without retaliation? How many times do you expect her to put up with it?

Best thing to do is two things. One - get a lock fitted to her room. Two - phone her up and you apologise to her.

Don’t ask either child to apologise - it is too late now.

But make it very clear to her that if she comes back then never again will you let her be put in a situation that she has no choice but to hurt or be hurt. That she can lock her door whenever she wants and that she doesn’t have to be around her brother without you to protect her.

.... she didn't react in the best way but i think the whole family could benefit from some defensive training so you can disengage from him safely.

What do you have in place keep him away from her? having to live in a home where she is on edge and worried about violence is not much fun either.

If you remove the hair pulling, your DD only did what you should have done. If you’re not going to parent him, it’s a good job he has someone to teach him when he’s being out of order.

Even ‘normal’ siblings retaliate… I’ve got three and I guarantee if any of them physically lashed out at the other they’d get it back (I don’t know if it’s because they are all boys).
The youngest who is a 7 years younger than oldest, has learnt that no quarter will be given because of his age now, if he kicks or hits he will probably get a measure of retaliation, despite me telling them not to react because ‘2 wrongs don’t make a right’ I don’t blame your daughter, and also feel also for your son, it’s a tough lesson to have learnt.

She's not his parent. She's his sister. Whole different kettle of fish, and a very good lesson to the DS that not everyone will react to his violence in the same way as his parents.

I think what's happened is that we've taken smacking and shouting out of the equation (correctly) and replaced it with nothing.

We're parenting the exact same way people did 50 years ago but just not doing the punishment bit.

It's right for our children to no longer be afraid of us, but currently a lot of them don't respect us either.

Hitting and shouting have no place in a civilised society, but setting firm boundaries and having consistent consequences and an expectation of mutual respect is necessary.