DD (16) physically retaliated in a fight with DS (6). I don’t know what to do.

[CandidPearlWasp]

Hi everyone. I’m having a very tough time with my children and hoping for some advice.

My DD is 16, and my son (her half brother) is 6. DD splits her time 50/50 between our house and my ex husband’s house.

Recently my son has been having behavioural challenges. Our physician suspects he has ODD and ADHD, and we are awaiting therapy and services for him. In the meantime, he has explosive and sometimes violent meltdowns and everyday tasks are a battle when he’s not getting his way. He has hit, punched, pulled hair, bit, etc. all of us and it’s been awful, but we can usually deescalate the situation, but since he’s a tall boy and weighs 65lbs it does hurt.

Two weeks ago my DD was in her bedroom watching something on her iPad, which her father bought for her. We do not have one for my son, so he’s been very intrigued by it and she’s let him use it before. This time, he went in and said he wanted to play on it. She said no. He started to have a verbal meltdown and she said “I said no, get out of my room please”. This escalated into him climbing onto her bed, hitting her in the face and pulling her hair. She then grabbed him by the hair, got off the bed by standing up while holding his hair and dragged him out of her room and across the hall by the hair. He was screaming in pain and fear and she threw him into his room, said “that doesn’t feel good, does it?” and slammed the door.

I was outside as this happened and alerted by the nanny cam we have downstairs. I rushed in and ran into my 6 year old’s room to calm him down, as he was wailing. My 16 year old came in and got angry with me saying it’s all always about him, even though he was “a little psycho who attacked her”. I told her that I understood it’s not okay he attacked her, but he’s a small child and what she did wasn’t okay. She left for her father’s that night and hasn’t been back, is barely speaking to me and won’t speak to or apologize to her brother. She’s made it clear to me she thinks she did nothing wrong.

I’m at a loss - about how to handle my son, how to reconnect with my daughter and how to move forward as a family.

What a tone deaf knob.

From what the OP posted the DS wasn't having and didn't have a meltdown.
He was fine until he was told "no". At which point he became violent and assaulted the DD.

To posters defending the DS to say otherwise (not TalulahJP) would be victim blaming the DD.

I think that you need to repost this in the sen section, a lot of the responses here don’t apply to a child with adhd and odd/pda. Violent behaviour is the norm at that age with that diagnosis, and not a concern with your parenting.

In general, with adhd, violence in young children comes from a position of stress/anxiety not held back because of the impulsiveness. An incident like this, which will likely have increased his stress, will almost certainly worsen his behaviour with his sister rather than “teach him a lesson”.

I think that suggestions of a lock on DD’s door are good. And I would actually try and see if you can get her on some sort of PDA adult training course with you so that she has the tools needed to deal with his behaviour without becoming violent. I also think that she needs some more support. Is there any sort of young carers charity near you?

I would draw a line under what happened and stop getting anyone to apologise. It won’t be meaningful, either way round, for DS and DD obviously feels really strongly about it. Take her out for lunch, tell her you love her and miss her, ask what she needs from you to get back to normal.

For your son I think that he needs a lot more help with his behaviour if he is having violent meltdowns every day. Is he in school? How is that going? Has he got an Ed psyche report? Are the recommendations being carried out? Have you seen an occupational therapist?

This child does not “have” ADHD and PDA. Violent behaviour may be “the norm at that age with that diagnosis” but he has no diagnosis. He’s just an out of control child who’s been pandered to by his mother and never told no, who thinks it’s OK to smash his sister in the face when he can’t get his own way as a result, and who Mummy rushes in to comfort and pander to a bit more when he’s wailing about it for attention. The way the OP paints the violent little darling as the victim and automatically rushes in to comfort him while she paints her poor daughter as the perpetrator when she hadn’t even seen the altercation makes it abundantly clear why he’s as disgustingly behaved as he is and the level of shit that the poor girl is having to cope with on a regular basis despite not even living there full time.

To suggest otherwise is insulting to children who are diagnosed with actual disabilities.

Obviously none of us know the child or the family, but the op says that the doctor is suggesting adhd and odd/pda.
The child is 6 - not many adhd diagnoses happen before 7, and odd/pda is notoriously difficult to get a diagnosis. So if they’re already on the way towards diagnosis for both at 6 then his behaviours must be quite clear to professionals and everyone involved with the child will already be working with the assumption that he has this diagnosis.

You have a responsibility to keep both your children safe from physical attacks

1. lock for her door especially if you’re not supervising your son and not there to protect her
2. look into non violence resistance training for all of you
3. a call to your local authority early help service asap

What is the plan for when he gets bigger? Is there a step father around? Do you ever do anything alone with DD?

I agree with everyone else - she must be so fed up. I’m not surprised she has gone to her Dads place. You seem to favour her brother.

If she has torn a chunk of flesh off his scalp then yes the cctv wouldn’t have looked good - it wasn’t just self defense it was a retaliation , she didn’t need to drag him by the hair that was an intentionally inflicted retribution as he pulled her hair . But she is bigger and stronger and could have removed him differently , she administered a dangerous corporal punishment.
not that I’m saying I blame her as she hasn’t been taught the skills for dealing with this and she is a child too, but that’s how she’d be treated by police if this has caused an injury - actual or grevioss bodily harm conviction.

I’d be amazed if the police did anything other than a referral to social work. It wouldn’t be considered in the public interest to prosecute a child who retaliated after being assaulted and where there are clearly complex issues in the family.

I’m in team daughter .

In self defense I was taught that there are three levels: defend, control, destroy. Your daughter may have been harsh but she was still in the control stage. What were you expecting her to do? Unless you have given her better tools to deal with your son I can't blame her for what she did.

Another one here on team daughter. Has your son ever experienced any consequences for his behaviour before?

I think it's genuinely repugnant that people are declaring themselves 'team daughter' (I would feel the same about anyone declaring themselves 'team son', though no one has). This is a family in crisis, a teenager who doesn't feel safe and supported by her mother and a young, disabled child who got assaulted by someone the size of an adult. I really don't think anything about it is something where anyone should be 'taking sides' or treating it like a joke.

Agree , it’s disgusting. Taking it that most of the respondents here are parents themselves , where is their empathy or wisdom - it’s alarming

ODD is NOT PDA.

ODD is a recognised psychiatric condition. The treatment is stronger boundaries and behavioural interventions which is the opposite to what is suggested for PDA, which is not an official diagnosis.

I though she was american as well - mainly due to physician and weight not being in stone.

Our physician suspects he has ODD and ADHD, and we are awaiting therapy and services for him.

Stop waiting - and start your own research and find what works for him- the SEN board on here could be helpful - books like explosive child - websites with tips about parental technquies with ODD.

In UK it's very area dependent what help there is - and often takes years to get diagnosed and then in some area that it it's still all on parents - so most parents have to stop waiting and start figuring out what works and doesn't for their child.

I'd have thought in two weeks at very least working out how to make your DD feel safe again at your house - rather than focuses on blame and apologies.

My guess is that many posters have grown up with a difficult sibling dynamic, hence the sharp responses.

It's tough for mothers who often worry about the one they feel needs them most - who seems most vulnerable.

OP, this might seem insoluble, but they can definitely be better. I wish you all the best.

She doesn't deserve to be attacked in her own bedroom.

If he was screaming in pain and fear, well maybe he'll think twice before attacking someone next time. Not everyone is going to be nicey-nicey "no hitting!" like mummy and daddy. Eventually he's going to come up against someone bigger and stronger who will lamp him back. Harder. I'd say your DD has taught him a valuable life lesson. Unfortunate? Yes. Your DDs fault? No.

Honestly? No sympathy. Serves him right.

I do wonder how many women, as girls, grew up watching their mothers fawn over their brothers while they just quietly "got on" with life. I remember having to be the "good one" who didn't cause trouble, as my older brother was a demanding pain in the arse as a child, so me acting up on top of that would probably have sent our mother completely over the edge - and I saw her close enough to it enough times as a child.

The issue isn’t a ND problem, DS clearly doesn’t like to be told NO and lashes out- that is just spoilt behaviour not ND behaviour. I have 2 ND children, my son in particular is 10 but has the understanding and independence of a 3 yo, and he is non verbal so becomes frustrated when he can’t communicate effectively and he doesn’t hit/bite etc when told NO- he doesn’t hit/bite anyone at all and hasn’t for many years because we taught him it is not nice behaviour, i am fed up of the amount of times ND is blamed for a child being violent/nasty.
What your DD did was wrong, but as others have said she probably just snapped/had enough, it seems to me that you tend to take DS side alot due to his possible ND and that is not ok, ND or not ALL your kids should feel safe and it is up to you to sort out DS for DD to feel safe, none of your kids should have to put up with horrible siblings behaviour just because they are ND.
you need to let DD know that while it was not ok, you understand why she did what she did and let DS know that while what DD did was not ok that unfortunately it was his behaviour that caused it and he needs to take responsibility for that xx

My guess is that many posters have grown up with a difficult sibling dynamic, hence the sharp responses.

I was actually more like the younger sibling in the dynamic (although I didn't physically attack people!), and I'm grateful to my parents that they didn't tolerate poor behaviour, and that I therefore have a wonderful relationship with my older siblings as an adult. But I think in general you're probably spot on there.

My brother is 10 years younger than me and was in physically aggressive towards me. I was never allowed to “retaliate” because “he was younger”. It ended up with me being his punching bag and knowing exactly where I stood in the pecking order!

Him and I both have adhd but mine wasn’t diagnosed until much later.

I have 3 boys with ADHD and autism and always made it very VERY clear that aggressive behavior will not be tolerated within the family, even during meltdowns. They have often threatened me physically during a meltdown but I am clear that I WILL NOT be frightened for my safety in my own home.

your son needs very firm boundaries and he needs them now before this escalates and your daughter needs to feel safe at home.

I appreciate your responses and have read them all. To clarify, my DD is about 105lb so she’s much larger than him. While I know it’s not okay that he’s hurt her before, this is the first time that DH and I haven’t been around to step in within a minute and the first time she’s retaliated like this at all.

I tended to him first because I got upstairs and one child was wailing while the other was quiet in her room. It was only once I started tending to him that she got verbally angry with me and him. I understand that from her perspective that when he gets physical and we focus on him it looks like the aggressor is getting the attention and care, but I truly don’t know how to handle it otherwise and will look into some training on that.

My DD is truly furious with me and my DH and my DS. When I tried to talk to her she said the entire house revolves around him, we expect her to give in to his every whim so he doesn’t have meltdowns and she said she’s not interested in coming back to our house or seeing our DS again, no matter what physical changes (ie locks) or household changes (supervision, therapy, etc.) we implement. Our DS keeps asking about her, wanting to apologize and crying that she won’t speak to him.

again, I appreciate the thoughts from everyone.

OP @CandidPearlWasp

"DS keeps asking about her, wanting to apologize and crying that she won’t speak to him.".
He needs to understand that if he batters people and other horrible behaviour they will dislike him and potentially hate him.
Have you tried to get that through to him?

Edit: I am specifically saying this because to date he has only seen yours and his father's reactions, which obviously were to pander to him rather than reflecting the unpleasantness of his behaviour.
So theoretically if he were actually SEN and not ODD / consciously being hurtful, he may not know that as he's not been shown it before.

I’m sorry to hear that OP.

Has this been the case for your DD - is it as she says.

If it has then I would look at doing some repairing and I would look to do it as a one on one. The ‘family’ relationship is important but it’s more important that you repair the mother daughter relationship